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Author Topic: Mortgages  (Read 3250 times)

Offline Whiskas

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Mortgages
« on: January 18, 2003, 15:37 »
You can get useful mortgage advice from www.johncharcol.co.uk. This independent broker takes your information and scans the best deals available for you at any time of the day.


Offline TR

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2003, 17:04 »
Mine finishes in July.....Yippee


Offline Clive

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2003, 17:11 »
Congratulations Hook!  Best buy a few bottles of Champagne to celebrate.  ;D

Offline Whiskas

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2003, 17:19 »
I'm just looking into buying at the moment. The house prices are so cheap up here I would be stupid not and I can pay it off in half the time.

Offline greenking

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2003, 19:33 »
AH........Me detects a housewarming party in the offing   :go:

My goal in life is to become half as good a person as my dog already thinks I am

Offline Whiskas

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2003, 19:46 »
And have you lot trample about? :rumad:

Offline TR

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2003, 20:02 »
Greenking.. you've seen my house  8)


and I don't want you creeping about !! ;D



From Hooks creepy house  :sadgit:

Offline Clive

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2003, 22:20 »
10/10 Hook.  That must be graphic of the month.   ;D

Offline Tony

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2003, 13:12 »
Whiskas, you could not be buying at a worst time, do yourself a favour and walk away

Prices may appear cheap where you live but everything is relative. House Markets like Stock Markets trend, and the House Market is about to reverse its current up trend. Theres nothing unusual in this, any tradable asset eventually at times becomes O/B [overbought]or O/S [oversold] and this is the case right now. The last time it peaked was 1989/90, now when that happened it took around 7/8 years for prices to come back to what they were at the peak, do you want to be in that trap?

Read the following article, and ignore the fact it is about the £1M plus market, it is perceptions that drive prices. If people think the trend is up they buy, sending prices higher. If the perception is down they sell, driving prices lower. There's only two things that drive Share Price or House Price Markets, Fear and Greedso at both extremes of any given trend, values are either overbought or oversold. And either one of the aforementioned positions needs to happen before a trend is reversed.

Cover Story: Country houses crash
With price falls of up to 30% and buyers renting as they wait for further cuts, when will the £1m-plus market hit rock bottom, asks Graham Norwood
 
 
 
James and Nicola Brent are happy to pay £3,100 a month in rent ? because they believe they will save hundreds of thousands of pounds as the country-house market falls during 2003.
The couple, with children aged 2, 4 and 6, sold their ?typical stockbroker-belt house? near Guildford, Surrey, for £1.65m this month. An earlier offer of £1.95m fell through, but they decided to sell before prices dropped further.

?Country properties where we live fell 20% to 30% in 2002,? warns James, a director at an American investment bank. ?I work in the City where there are job losses, cuts in bonuses and great uncertainty. These are the people who buy around here, so prices for these sorts of properties will fall much further this year.?

The couple sold their 15th-century, six- bedroom home with 15 acres and are prepared to rent for up to a year before buying again. ?Prices will get worse before they get better. It can take a very long time to sell, so when we find the place we want, we don?t want to risk a bridging loan for a long period,? says James.

The Brents? approach follows warnings about the country-house market from economists. Andrew Oswald, professor of economics at Warwick University, says country houses are in the vanguard of a housing slowdown that will see a 30% fall in prices by the end of next year.

?In this sector it makes sense to sell now, rent for some months and buy when properties hit the bottom of the cycle,? advises Oswald. ?The signs are there ? people with money are buying gold instead of property.

?Country houses costing £1m or more are bought by people with large stock-market holdings. They?ve seen that wealth seriously damaged for three successive years. Now they?re losing money on their homes.?

Capital Economics, a business consultancy that is predicting house price falls at all levels, says recent rises for country properties have been more fragile than for cheaper ones.

?There?s very little statistical analysis of £1m-plus properties, which are less than one third of a per cent of the total housing market. This allows estate agents to talk up prospects. But there seems strong evidence from the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister, which monitors house prices, that homes costing £1m or more have been falling,? says Capital Economics? property economist Sabina Kalyan.

A breakdown of homes on Primelocation.com ? a property website funded by up-market estate agents and carrying details of 60% of the £1m-plus properties for sale ? shows asking prices in much of southern England, East Anglia, the East Midlands and Scotland falling in the past year. Only parts of the home counties and northern England show substantial increases ? but these figures are based on advertised asking prices. Many sales are agreed at lower prices, say professional property buyers who seek out homes for wealthy clients.

?More than 50% of the homes we bought for clients in 2002 were for much less than their asking price,? says Jonathan Greenwood of Stacks property finders, which operates across southern England and the Midlands. ?We recently got one for just 35% of its asking price ? an exception, but an indication of just how fragile the market has become.?

County Homesearch, another buying agency, believes country houses are selling routinely for 10% to 20% below the asking price. ?There?s a possible war, few City bonuses and market falls. Things are uncertain,? says agency partner David Le Neve Foster.

Most selling agents are trying to talk up country-house sales, but calls to local offices confirm that all the big agencies have slashed at least some prices in recent weeks. Near Taunton, an 18th-century, Grade II-listed house was cut by Humberts from £850,000 to £750,000. FPDSavills chopped £250,000 off the £1.5m price of a 16th-century property near Chew Magna in Somerset. The Middleton, at Sunningdale in Berkshire, was on sale for £9m through FPDSavills and Knight Frank, but is now down to £7.8m.

Some properties have been removed from sale for a month, then ?relaunched? at a lower price. Several houses now advertised in Country Life have actually been on sale for months without finding a purchaser. But agents accept that prices have fallen and renting is a sensible option. Hamptons International says prices now are 10%-20% cheaper than in early 2002, and the rental market is busier because clients are waiting for the market to fall further.

Knight Frank says the country-house sales sector may drop another 5% in 2003. ?Only the most stubborn seller wouldn?t be flexible about prices,? says its research chief David Moulton.

Oswald, who predicts widespread falls, wants to put his money where his mouth is. In 1988, he urged his wife to sell their home but she did not agree ? and within six months it was worth 20% less, because of a price collapse. ?I?m suggesting we sell now and rent until prices fall, when we?d buy again,? he says. ?After the experience of 15 years ago, I hope my wife will see that there?s some merit in this economics lark.?

 
 



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Offline Tony

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2003, 13:17 »
And another article also taken from the Sunday Times [Januay 03  edition ]

Your boom is nigh: the great housing catastrophe
andrew oswald
 
 
 
Sell your home by May. Then go away. Over the next two years there is going to be blood on estate agents? carpets from Thurso to Torquay.
The outlook is now extremely serious for Britain?s housing market ? contrary to the optimistic forecast by the Nationwide building society yesterday that most of us can expect at least double-digit price increases this year, after a 25 per cent boom in 2002.

I side with the pessimists and expect to see a 30 per cent fall in prices between the middle of 2003 and the end of 2005. So, if you can do it without ruining your personal life, my professional advice is that you should put your home up for sale as soon as possible.

I am not persuaded that even in the long run homes will offer as good a return as they have during my lifetime. Firstly, the income tax advantages of owning bricks and mortar are lower than they have been for decades, and mortgage interest relief will never return.

Second, the birth rate is falling. On current estimates the British population will start to shrink sometime around the year 2025, which will be bad news for the demand for homes. Third, as more parents allow their children to have sexual partners living in the family home, the incentive, especially for young males, to flit the comfort of the nest for separate accommodation will steadily drop.

Fourth, Gordon Brown?s stamp duty tax on house purchase (now 4 per cent of the value of any house costing more than £500,000) will encourage people to stay put and live more densely within the same housing space. Fifth, it is only a matter of time before more of the green belt is overcome by the harsh laws of demand and supply in the South East: inevitably, more houses will have to be built within that region.

Consider the intellectual case for such new year gloom. We have been brought up to believe that sustained falls in the price of houses are impossible. Tell that, however, to those who live in Hong Kong, where prices fell by 65 per cent. Or go to the library and examine the wave-like graphs of British history. Once inflation is subtracted (so that we look at ?real? prices), one finds that by 1977 the value of homes stood 30 per cent below their peak in the early years of that decade. At the end of 1995 the real value of homes was 40 per cent below the top of the market reached in the early 1990s. I have looked at current data, and I expect the Great Crash of 2003-5 to be just as severe.

One useful piece of formal economics has percolated into public debate. The best indicator of what will happen in the housing market is historically an arithmetical formula, namely, the ratio of house prices to incomes. In Great Britain, the long-run ratio of the average price of a home to the typical person?s earnings is approximately four. In other words, if a representative Briton earns £25,000 a year, then house prices are happily in equilibrium when they average about £100,000. That sustainable ratio tends to be a little higher in London and the South East, and a bit lower elsewhere, but the ratio of four is the right broad-brush number.

Unfortunately, we are now considerably above a safe ratio. House prices have reached a multiple of five times average earnings. Danger signals are not merely flashing but are on the verge of fusing. Low interest rates have never saved us in the past and they won?t save us this time.

And be in no doubt, it will hurt. In earlier times, inflation and rising pay levels took away some of the pain. What matters in a red-hot property boom is to get the ratio of house prices to earnings down from the stratosphere. When pay was rising fast, the ratio fell. But this time around, with inflation at only a couple of per cent, almost all the unpleasantness is going to have to come through drops in the price of our homes.

Take my tip: move into rented accommodation in time for summer sunshine. After that, put as much money as you dare into the stock market. Alternatively, one could take the view, as with a pension portfolio, that housing will go up and go down, and that one should grit one?s teeth and stay fully invested. Yet the argument against doing that is a good one: if I live in a £300,000 house or flat and if I could get my timing perfect ? in and out of renting ? I might be able to save nearly £100,000, tax free. That kind of figure concentrates the mind.

As in most markets, when things get overvalued, a decline in prices does not merely return us to the long-run average. Things overshoot. In other words, when people start selling, they get carried away, and prices go too far down. The same happens in the upwards direction, of course. Excessive herd movement happens on the way up and the way down.

Take, for example, the stock market. The value of shares is dictated, essentially, by people?s confidence in the future. More precisely, the price that traders are willing to pay for a share such as Tesco or Barclays is fixed by their gut feeling about the degree of prosperity to come in the British economy. Share prices tell us about confidence.

The same has to be true in the housing market. Both shares and homes are assets. They are worth something now because they will produce a stream of returns in the future.

This takes us to a point that seems not to have been made in public debate. It makes no sense for the stock market to be valued below its long-run trend while housing is valued way above its long-run trend. Because both are assets, that cannot be sustained. Either people are confident about the future, in which case both houses and shares should be worth a lot, or they are not confident, in which case the prices of both shares and houses ought to be low.

But what of the idea that experts fix share prices, while amateurs fix house prices? Perhaps this means, it might be argued, that the housing and stock markets can take separate paths. No: even amateurs eventually catch on.

I believe that house prices will continue to rise about 5 per cent or a little more until summer 2003. Then I expect them to fall by almost one third. One way to understand this is to work out the numbers and study history. Another is to use pure logic. Both, however, point to the same conclusion. This market looks impossibly stretched.

Why? The over valuation of house prices is being driven by low interest rates and a lack of logic by purchasers. Buyers have mistaken low interest rates as a sign that houses are, in some sense, cheap. Regrettably, that is an illusion.

Just because my mortgage repayments today are lower than they would be in a situation of high inflation and high interest rates does not mean, in a true sense, that my home is now less expensive. A £30,000 Saab is not cheaper in a world where interest rates are low, nor dearer in a world where interest rates are high. The price is the price.

It is the same with houses. Indeed, the appropriate interest rate to look at, if any, is the real cost of borrowing. This is the interest rate compared to the inflation rate. Despite borrowers? perceptions, that interest rate is not especially low at the moment.

The crash will probably start something like this:

In the spring of this year it will begin to be generally recognised that house prices have stopped rising. Purchasers will cease to be enthusiastic. Many with buy-to-let properties will begin to sell. House prices will shudder. Then, by late summer, I see confidence in housing ebbing more substantially. Prices, even outside slowing London, will crumble. Headlines will appear: house prices fell 4 per cent last year, 8 per cent last year, perhaps 12 per cent. Panic will thus set in.

Sadly, there is really nothing that can now be done. In the long run, we must think hard about how to make the British housing market work more sensibly. In the short run, the message is simpler. Sell up now.

 
 
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Offline Tony

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2003, 19:02 »
From the lack of a reply to my posts, I guess what I said isn?t what you wanted to hear Whiskas.

Sorry about that, I suspect you have been sold the dream, as you are at the stage of choosing a mortgage provider. Remember those who advise you about the market and where it is most likely heading, estate agents and loan providers have a vested interest. In that they want you to buy a property irrespective of which way house prices are going. That's how the make their living, they do not go into hibernation when the market trends downwards.

And you have obviously taken my advice as a personal critisem, a misunderstanding I put down to your youthfull disposition. ;) Anyway jump onboard the learning curve of life, you'll have thrills and spills. Then you can advise others.... on second thoughts what do  :fart: know.  ;D
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Offline Whiskas

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2003, 19:29 »
Firstly, I wouldn't have posted on here  that I was considering buying a house if I didn't want advice.

Secondly, I'm sorry I didn't reply as quickly as you would have liked, I didn't realise an immediate response was required on here

Thirdly, do you always jump to conclusions about people without having had a response? where have you got the idea that I have taken anything as a personal critism?

I will bear in mind the helpful advice you have posted and here's some for you :chill: ;D

Offline Tony

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Re:Mortgages
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2003, 19:42 »
Have a ciggy lass  ;D

where have you got the idea that I have taken anything as a personal critism?

Well firstly from your silence on an important issue you raised, whilst finding the time to post trivia on other threads.

And secondly by the composition of your last post.

Hell I was only trying to save you a lot of pain and suffering.

 :niceday:

Athiesm is a non-prophet organization.


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