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Author Topic: FTL - not buying it - or am I?  (Read 3025 times)

Offline D-Dan

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FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« on: October 21, 2011, 01:03 »
Ok - this has aroused my curiosity somewhat, and I've exhibited an interest in quantum theory for some time, and seen holes in current thinking that string theory purports to address, though string theory isn't without it's problems (not least being the concept of 10 dimensions). Anyhoo, in a flash of insipration, I've come up with something that is close to string theory, but doesn't have the limitations that string theory has, will maintain Einstein's theory and will explain FTL. I haven't looked, so maybe I'm not the first, but if not, I'm calling it globe theory.

It goes like this (and starts somewhat similarly to string theory) in that our observable universe inhabits 3 dimensions (I'll exclude time since my theory requires time to be a relative constant throughout - more on that later). Our 3 dimensions occupy an infinitely small layer on a 4th dimensional globe. Within our observable universe a straight line is exactly the shortest distance between one point and the next. However, in the 4th dimension the straight line is actually curved, and the shortest path between two points rests in that dimension bridging the arc. Now, light is constrained to the 3 observable dimensions, whilst neutrinos may be able to avoid the arc and travel across the bridge. Within the observable dimensions this would give the illusion of FTL travel, when in fact it's nothing of the sort, it's just a shorter route.

Time itself has to remain relatively constant and calculable. Within the observable universe, Einstein's theory holds up, though as you progress towards the centre of the 4th dimensional globe time would slow down relative to the proximity to the centre, thus maintaining a universal constant. (In other words, travel from one point of the arc to another would take the same relative time regardless of the distance from the centre - therefore, passing between two points of the arc further than our own observable universe would take the same time, but time would happen relatively faster, maintaining a universal constant).

This does also mean that time travel remains impossible, since a shortcut doesn't actually change time. It does also do away with 5 superfluous dimensions.
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Offline GillE

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2011, 02:16 »
Did you watch that Marcus Du Sautoy programme on BBC2 t'other night?  He outlined a similar theory to yours as being a possible bridge between Einstein's physics and FTL particles.

For myself, I'm a bit confused about how even small particles can travel faster than the speed of light because (as I understand it) a body must have infinite mass if it is to attain the speed of light.  However, according to string theory it isn't necessary to go FTL in order to jump into another dimension.  So what is the threshold speed for a dimensional jump and why is it that light isn't in the other dimension?  Furthermore, what makes the particles slow down so that they come back into our universe?

It's great to see someone asking questions such as these.  Keep it up, D-Dan :)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 02:19 by GillE »
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Offline D-Dan

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 04:56 »
I did watch the programme, which is what got me thinking about it a bit more. As I understand it, a body doesn't need infinite mass to attain light speed, but would rather gain infinite mass IF it attained light speed. This being the case, it may not be speed that forces a particle through the dimensional barrier, but rather mass (at a quantum level). Light has no mass and so never attains a sufficient mass to break free, hence it's confinement to the observable universe. Conversely, a neutrino has such a tiny mass that perhaps it's small enough to break through. It may be size and minimal mass that is the key, rather than velocity.
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Offline Clive

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2011, 07:28 »
I missed the programme so thanks very much for the iPlayer link.  I think this is one for the big screen so I shall watch it later.   8-)

Offline Clive

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2011, 20:59 »
What a fascinating programme - one of the best I've seen in a long while.  It seems thee are three possible explanations:

1) The Italian scientists were inaccurate with their measurements.

2) The particles are tachyon neutrinos as I suggested in a previous thread on this topic.

3) The neutrinos are passing out of our brane into the bulk and back again. 

All of this is highly speculative and the scientists who peddle this stuff are specialists in their field.  The other point to note is that it is all done using mathematical formulae which are impossible to visualise.  Thankfully we have a professional cosmologist on this forum who might enjoy answering the questions if he ever surfaces from his honeymoon.   :laugh:

Offline D-Dan

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2011, 00:50 »
The problem with the brane/bulk theory (which I quite like otherwise) is the way that it's been described doesn't actually explain FTL travel (perceived or otherwise). String theory describes a series of membranes in parallel. If that is the case, any tachyon neutrino would have to travel significantly faster than LS once is enters the bulk to arrive at the same point ahead of light. This is why I quite like my own theory, which allows that to happen without actually exceeding light speed. However, having given the matter more thought, I have to concede that the "infinitely small" nature of the Z axis in our own perceived universe is something of a problem to explain. Nevertheless, I have an addendum that may allow the 3rd observable dimension to exist (to a point, though the point that the theoretical Z axis disintegrates is likely to be so far off even possible measurement that it could be true anyway), and that is that the brane that we occupy has a fixed X and Y dimension (and time is, to an extent, fixed also, within the confines of Einstein's theory) but the Z dimension is actually flexible. If I return to the "globe" theory, the brane on the globe that we occupy may be similar to a layer in a gelatinous body, in that it can expand and contract within the bulk to accommodate the Z.

This in turn would mean that all other branes adjacent (and those adjacent to those etc) would expand and contract accordingly, hence the need for time being a universal constant. If our Z dimension forces concentric dimensions closer to the centre, then time would have to speed up or slow down accordingly to maintain a constant, measurable time in each concentric layer. This would also allow observation within all 4 (X, Y and Z + time) dimensions of observable space, whilst maintaining a bridge for neutrinos to cross thus creating the illusion of FTL. There would, of course, be a falloff in the expansion/contraction as we observe in our own day to day lives.

The more I think about this (which is a surprisingly large amount for a complete amateur) the more I like my theory and the more it explains what is already accepted as fact and explains the "anomaly" observed at CERN and Italy. IMO - more than what is currently conventional theory.

It does start to fall down as you approach the extremities of the "Z" dimension, but since we have no way of knowing what happens there (perhaps the barriers between the branes fall down themselves) I can comfortably continue with my current train of thought.

EDIT: OK - at the extremities, and given that I don't condone more that one extra dimension, I have a possible solution, which lies in the whole matter/anti-matter theory. Rather than a clear boundary between branes, there is more of a blurring (think of a gradient) between relative observable dimensions. As you approach the extremities (though this will happen from the epicentre of each observable set of dimensions, increasing as you approach the limits) there isn't a clear and defined barrier. Instead, each merges to the next, maintaining a single 5th dimension. The distinction between branes isn't so much dimensional as it is the difference between matter and anti-matter. There becomes an increasing likelihood of exchange of states as you approach the limits, which tiny, sub atomic (let's call then tachyon) neutrinos can navigate. Because this is an exchange, the ratio of matter to anti-matter is maintained, and because this is a constant exchange, the balance between each remains relatively constant, too. Huge particles (Electron, neutron etc) can't cross between the two because the collision with their exchanged counterparts would annihilate both, whilst the smallest particles with mass could travel and narrowly escape destruction. This maintains the idea that mass is required to travel across the "blur", explaining why light can't escape and why FTL still appears to happen.

I'm getting a headache now.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 01:05 by D-Dan »
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Online Simon

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2011, 11:16 »
I'm keeping out of this thread, because I don't even know what the title means!   :blush:
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Offline Rik

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2011, 11:56 »
You are not alone. :)
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Offline GillE

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2011, 12:52 »
FTL = Faster Than Light.  European scientists have apparently recorded neutrinos travelling faster than the speed of light, something which Einstein's theories debarred.
There is no opinion, however absurd, which men will not readily embrace as soon as they can be brought to the conviction that it is readily adopted.

(Schopenhauer, Die Kunst Recht zu Behalten)

Offline Clive

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2011, 17:39 »
I think we have to wait for Sam to return in order to take this thread forward.  He appears to have disappeared into a black hole,but I'm certain he will return in the fullness of time.  ;D

Online Simon

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2011, 18:06 »
We hope!   ;D
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Offline Rik

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2011, 18:18 »
Unfortunate turn of phrase, Clive.  :devil:
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Offline Clive

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2011, 18:25 »
 :hee-hee:  I didn't get where I am today without knowing an unfortunate turn of phrase or two. 

Offline Rik

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2011, 18:36 »
Yes, CJ.  ;D
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Offline Clive

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Re: FTL - not buying it - or am I?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2011, 18:59 »
 :smirks:


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