Topic: Defrag or not

[Simon]

OK, guys, I'm in a dilemma.  Running XP, and have installed Diskeeper, which I have set to 'Set and Forget' mode, so that defragging runs automatically in the background.

Now, the thing is, this seems to occur at least once a day, and twice if I'm on the PC for a long period.  The process only lasts about 1 minute, but I have heard opinions that too much defragging can cause wear on the hard drive.

What I want to know is, a) is defragging neccessary with XP, and b) is it better to do it more often, so that the process is quicker, or do it less often, so that it takes longer?

Discuss.  

[Clive]

Whereas I used to defrag once a month, I now only do it about once every three months.  I don't see a lot of difference afterwards anyway.

[Adept]

On the version of Diskeeper I'm familiar with (admittedly one version old and running on NT4 ) the Set and Forget feature doesn't have any visible process involved with it. It just quietly sits there keeping files nicely defragged as you work. Are you sure you haven't set a scheduled defrag as well Simon?



I don't buy this nonsense about defrag wearing your drive out if you run it too often. After all, if that was the case, streaming a video file or loading Internet Explorer 200 times-a-day or even the Windows paging file would also wear out the disk drive wouldn't it?

I personally don't defrag my main drives more than once or twice a month when I remember and, like Clive, I don't really expect to see any significant improvement in speed these days - PCs are just too fast for a small amount of defragmentation to make much difference. A heavily fragmented drive however will be a little slower and is probably worth spending some time defragmenting.

[Simon]

With my DK (version 7 I think), all I see is a system tray icon pop up when it's doing it's business, and I hear the hard drive working a little.

When you say you defrag your main drives once or twice a month, is that in addition to what DK does, Sean?  I'm a little confused as to what DK actually does, and how it works so quickly.

[Adept]

When you say you defrag your main drives once or twice a month, is that in addition to what DK does, Sean?

I meant on my PC Simon. DK is installed on various servers of various companies I look after. To be honest I don't really get involved with DK that often as Set and Forget means literally that! The drives are kept constantly more or less defragged (usually no more than 1% fragmentation).

[Tony]

Hi Simon,

I have my DK set on 'Set and Forget' on Smart Scheduling Every Day. I think it has 'kicked in' once today, anyway below is the report I just got when I manually anyalized C: drive


Findings on C:

Diskeeper has completed analysis of this volume and found 30 fragmented files and/or directories and 468 excess fragments.

The average number of fragments per file is 1.01.

On average, you have 1% excess fragments per file on this volume.  This is a slightly fragmented volume.  You should schedule Diskeeper to run at least once a day (if you haven't already done so) to keep fragmentation at a low level

I then did a manual defrag and it took eleven seconds with this result:  

Findings on C:

Diskeeper has completed a defragmentation run on this volume and there remain 8 fragmented files and/or directories and 35 excess fragments.  (There were 452 excess fragments before the defragmentation run, and now there are 92% less.)

The average number of fragments per file is 1.00.

On average, you have 0% excess fragments per file on this volume.  This is a slightly fragmented volume.  You should schedule Diskeeper to run at least once a day (if you haven't already done so) to keep fragmentation at a low level.  


I'm with Adept regards the wear scare due to using DK.

[Simon]

OK, thanks guys.  I'll leave it as it is then.  

[ketamininja]

IF your defrag is only taking a minute, then you don't need to defrag...

You should only really need to do it if you constantly install (and uninstall) or download and move a lot of stuff.

once a month is probably ok, maybe overkill depending on the above habits.

As far as I am aware, yes it does wear and tear your HDD. There is a certain POH life (power on heads or something). Its about err 10 million usually or something (can't remember...!) - Your life of HDD is usually the POH number OR 5 years !

[lobo]

I think we need to define what the process of decrementing does
The Windows operating system is a reasonably efficient OS when it comes to dealing with files, when you write data to the hard drive the OS fits parts of the data into areas on the hard drive that are empty of data so if you save a 500mb file  to a drive the OS may split the file into many parts installing each part into an area that may have been occupied by data from another file that has been deleted, When files are updated, the computer tends to save these updates on the largest continuous space on the hard disk, which is often on a different sector than the other parts of the file. When files are thus fragmented, the computer must search the hard disk each time the file is opened to find all of the file's parts, which slows down response time.
Disk Defragmenter consolidates fragmented files and folders on your computer's hard disk, so that each occupies a single, contiguous space on the volume. As a result, your system can gain access to your files and folders and save new ones more efficiently. By consolidating your files and folders, Disk Defragmenter also consolidates the volume's free space, making it less likely that new files will be fragmented.
@ ketamininja
Instead of increasing wear and tear on the hard drive it must actually decrease ware and tear because the heads have less work to do to find and access files.
@ Simon
If you have the disk defragmenter running in the back ground then you don?t need to run the program separately, the program will keep you hard drive defragmenter automatically by running only when needed, i.e. when saving new data to the hard drive

Brian  

[Simon]

Thanks for that explanation Brian.  I have left Diskeeper on it's 'Set It And Forget It' setting, which is supposed to do everything automically, when needed.  Currently, as I said earlier, it pops into action about once a day, for no longer than a minute or two at a time.

I can actually see the logic behind both schools of thought, but every time you access your hard drive, you must be effecting a certain amount of 'wear and tear', so whatever you do, it's not going to last forever.  

[lobo]

Hi Simon
Whenever your PC is switched on then the hard drive is working, even when I have no programs open my drive shows a lot of activity if you check the Windows Task Manager (Ctl Alt & Del) you will be surprised to see how many programs are running in the background.  I have 59 processors running in the background all requiring direct access to the hard drive so you cannot just decide not to write to the drive

As to the lifetime of a drive then I suggest that the guarantee period gives a more realistic time limit, most drives are guaranteed for three years and I would not expect a reliable data store beyond that time although there are exceptions to that.

Brian

[Adept]

most drives are guaranteed for three years and I would not expect a reliable data store beyond that time although there are exceptions to that.

Maxtor has recently reduced its warranty to one year on its lower end drives Makes you wonder about their reliability doesn't it?

[lobo]

Hi Adept
Yes I was working on a computer belonging to the son of a friend of Sandra?s last week that had a Maxtor 49Gb drive suddenly some system files and refused to boot, did a format and a reinstall ran for a day and went legs up again replaced the drive and its perfect, the drive was 14 months old !!!

Brian

[ketamininja]

Instead of increasing wear and tear on the hard drive it must actually decrease ware and tear because the heads have less work to do to find and access files.

There is much more work to do to defrag as it usually uses all the heads at once to move data around, and usually in clusters which means the POH activates a lot more as it goes back and forth.

This is why I would only suggest doing it every so often. If you defrag data, say, every day, then there will be more wear and tear from normal reading, although the data to move may be very small.

If you are simply trying to read "scattered" data, then the POH will still be affected - just wont be moving as much as a defreg. Of course, contiguous data means that it has to move even less.

LOL, if the data is always defragged then, technically, the new data to be written will also be in this state. Therefore no defrag required! Shame it doesn't work like that  

[ketamininja]

Whenever your PC is switched on then the hard drive is working, even when I have no programs open my drive shows a lot of activity if you check the Windows Task Manager (Ctl Alt & Del) you will be surprised to see how many programs are running in the background.  I have 59 processors running in the background all requiring direct access to the hard drive so you cannot just decide not to write to the drive

Of course a lot of background apps are being held in memory. But yes, some will access the HDD depending on what you are running.