PC Pals Forum
Technical Help & Discussion => Self Building, Upgrading & General Hardware Help => Topic started by: Clive on March 23, 2004, 20:44
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I have an Athlon 2200 machine which has always suffered from a strange screen display problem. After 20 minutes, the display disappears and I have to re-boot, after which it is perfectly fine for the rest of the day. I haven't found it to be too much of a problem because I switch it on when I get up in the morning, have breakfast, and then do a re-boot by turning the computer off at the switch. However, in recent weeks, it seems to be getting worse, and I'm having to re-boot several or many times a day.
Originally, the video card was suspected to be the culprit, but that was changed and it didn't solve the problem. If I wanted to change the motherboard, what should I go for and about how much would fitting cost? I know I should have had it done whilst it was under warranty but I couldn't bear to be without it. Oh, I could have a second HDD fitted at the same time couldn't I?
The one thing that I'm scared of, is that since my computer is networked to Mrs Clive's, would she lose her Internet connection if I disconnected it?
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When you say the display disappears, do you mean the screen goes completely blank? Is is exactly 20 minutes? I don't suppose it could be anything in your Power Management options going into standby?
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What happens is that the screen freezes and if I alt/tab to a different screen it breaks up and goes blank. Sometimes I get double images but I can only alt/tab about 4 times and the display goes completely black and the computer re-boots by itself. If I just turn it on and leave it without using it, the screen will go grey and I have to turn it off at the mains. You can almost set your watch with the 20 minute timeout and it always leaves an error in the event viewer log. All it says is "nv" and there have been 14 so far today. They all correspond to this problem. If I don't get it sorted very soon I fear that it will result in a complete failure.
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The first thing that springs to mind when you say 'nv' is nVidia (but of course it might be something completely different), and it does bear some of the hallmarks of a graphics problem, but as I have no real idea what it could be, I'd best leave this one to a real techie!
Is this the machine :adept: put together for you? Bloody cowboys!! ;D ;D ;D
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Clive check the refresh rate in the video properties and try it a bit higher or a bit lower and see if that improves things, I should think that you should be somewhere between 60hz and 100hz on your setup.
I thought that you had a VIGOR router Clive, in that case unless you are using your pc as the gateway and not seperate ethernet connections to your pc and Mrs Clives, then there shouldnt be a problem,
Her laptop presumably uses the wi fi connection to the router too so all 3 should be able to connect to the net indepedantly of any of the others :)
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The replacement graphics card was a slightly upgraded one so it couldn't have been part of a bad batch. It made no difference so the old one was re-installed. I only have myself to blame for not getting to the bottom of it since I should have let it go back to the workshop for testing when it was under warranty. If consensus of opinion is that it could be the board then I know someone who will fit a new one for me while I wait. But it still means taking the machine to him, and the guy is a total nutter. I still need to know what to buy and what would happen to my network.
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Look up here Clive ^ :)
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I've changed it from 75 to 72Hz and the screen momentarily went black and returned. It says that the default setting should be 60Hz so I'll reduce it in stages to see if that makes any difference. Meanwhile, I found this website:
http://www.voodoofiles.com/2633
I think I have an ethernet connection Sandra. I really should pay more attention shouldn't I? ;D
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The one thing that I'm scared of, is that since my computer is networked to Mrs Clive's, would she lose her Internet connection if I disconnected it?
Clive, Sandra is correct, you have a router. You internet connection does not rely on your PC being there at all ::)
Chganging the refresh rate won't help as you have an LCD panel. It needs to be 1024x768 at 60KHz to give the best picture.
The PC has been completely dismantled, cleaned and re-built and the graphics card has been changed. The graphics drivers started off as Detonator, went back to standard Windows ones and then Detonator again without altering the problem ???
The exact error message from the event log would be helpful Clive, as it didn't log an error when I first started looking at the problem. Could you post it here please.
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It says Parse Error on CMDCD 00000000 00000000 00736300 00000010 00736300 if that's of any use Adept. The fact that I can remove the machine without disrupting Mrs Clive has put my mind at rest as it means that I can afford to be without it for a short period if necessary.
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A quick Google found this (http://forums.winforums.org/showthread.php?t=319&highlight=Parse+Error+CMDCD) Clive. It would appear to be a common fault with nVidia Gforce4s and VIA motherboards.
A quick precis:-
1. Download and install latest Detonator drivers
2. Download and install latest VIA 4-in-1 drivers
3. Use Windows update to install latest AMD processor driver for XP
4. This:-
"At least, got this problem solved. After having tried almost everything, last weekend i made 2 more adjustments in the Bios: setting AGP Aperture Size to 128, following a tip stating that this should be half the size of my memory (which is in my case 256mB). Further I set "Timing Setting Mode" to "normal" (was "faster") Optical mouse reinstalled, hardware acceleration to "full", no more freezes since 4 days. I suspect that "Timing Setting Mode" was the problem, I tried yesterday for a short while with the aperture size back to 64MB, no freezes there. I will of course at some point update my NVIDIA driver, but for now i'm glad that the machine is running.
Just wanted to share this, maybe someone else can benefit from my findings."
Might be worth a try :-\
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Thanks very much Adept. ;D I've downloaded the Windows Update driver and also the latest VIA 4 in 1 and my computer still works. I can't find a Detonator driver later than 2002 though. Incredibly, apart from the usual "20 minute" problem this morning, everything has been very stable today and that was even before I installed those new drivers. ::) I'm keeping my fingers crossed and if this solves it I will be very very happy. 8)
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I can't find a Detonator driver later than 2002 though.
Try http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_56.64
Detonator seems to be called ForceWare now ::) (no-one consulted me on this! >:( ;D )
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My knees are starting to knock here Adept. Three drivers in one day! Here we go then.... ;D
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Driver Installation Hints
"Download Accelerator" utilities should be disabled when downloading any drivers.
Do not run virus protection software in the background while installing the drivers. This prevents the driver from configuring itself properly.
Before installing new drivers make sure you uninstall all NVIDIA display drivers from the Windows Control Panel. Browse to the Start Menu > Windows Control Panel > Add/Remove Programs and search for "NVIDIA Windows Display Drivers" or "NVIDIA Display Drivers" and select remove.
What do you make of that last one Adept? :-\
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I've never disabled AVG before installing Detonator, but I wouldn't want to vouch for Norton or McAfee :-\
If you uninstall the pre-existing Detonator drivers, your screen will probably revert back to 640x480 while you install the new ones.
I'm sure it won't hurt a bit ;)
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It is recommened to uninstall any old graphic drivers before updating to new ones.
If you don't do that, then there can be various problems with the PC.
Just outta curiousity, does it do this in Safe Mode?
I'm thinking that the monitor is perhaps more to blame.
Why not swap monitors with Mrs Clive and test in the morning - see if it still happens.
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Being the cautious guy that I am, and considering that everything has been very well behaved since this morning, I'm going to chicken out and wait to see if the first two updates have solved the problem! I will know by 8 am tomorrow morning. ;D
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:chicken: ;D ;D
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Third driver here we come... ;D
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Sorry Ket, I missed your post last night. I tried swapping monitors right back at the beginning, and it didn't make any difference. I haven't tried it in safe mode so that might be a worth testing. It's too late for today as the 20 minute problem has already taken place. But I will boot up into safe mode tomorrow and see what happens.
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I've removed the NVidia display driver and that in itself was interesting because as soon as I re-booted the display kept playing up. Anyway, I downloaded the Detonator and notice that this driver was only released on March 15th 2004 so it's bang up to date. So far so good.
OK, I've done this all backwards as the instructions told me to download Detonator first, then the 4 in 1. I presume that I have removed the 4 in 1 so should I re-install it again?
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I presume that I have removed the 4 in 1 so should I re-install it again?
:gofor:
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:aarrgh: ;D
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That can't have been the one I deleted this morning as it claims to be still there. Anyway, to be on the safe side I overwrote it and re-installed it. ;D We may have to wait until the morning for the next exciting update. :)
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I was hoping to give you good news this morning but it's just the same. :'( The only difference is that instead of getting a bright grey blank screen, it's now jet black. Tomorrow I will boot up in safe mode and see what happens.
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I booted up into safe mode at 6 am (these damn light mornings!)and when I looked at 9 am the display was still intact. However, the moment I moved the mouse to re-boot into normal mode the display disappeared and the computer re-booted by itself. :'( I have no idea how to interprate this so I'm hoping one of you guys can help.
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rebooting by itself now eh? oh dear.
In safe mode go to system properties (right click my computer > properties)
Click advanced tab
Click settings under STARTUP & RECOVERY
UNCHECK the "Automatically restart" option.
Hopefully next time it wants to reboot you'll get that lovely BSOD which will give ya a number (0x0000008E or something) - I'm sure you know about them Clive!!
Post it here or search google for that number...
::)
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I've printed that out Ket, and I'll disable it when I boot up in safe mode tomorrow morning. It would be nice to get some sort of message explaining what's happening wouldn't it? Apart from the first boot up problem, it seems to have become more stable again in recent days. The only other time it happened yesterday was after leaving the machine switched on unattended for a few hours. When I went to use it the display vanished. I rebooted but there was no beep and it ended up with a blank screen. I booted yet again, got a beep, and Windows refused to fully load. The 3rd attempt was successful though and it was stable for the rest of the day.
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It seems there is definitely a hardware problem of some kind - it could be driver related or power management related...
yep really anywhere in the whole pc problem scale. The no beep is worrying, making me think more hardware than software (drivers).
Could be a heating issue too (Safe mode rarely stresses the PC, so it may not overheat there).
Good luck tomorrow!
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Clive you should be able to see an error message in the System error log in admin tools, not always very clear but it may help and will be in there now so you dont have to wait until it happens again.
There may be quite a few but if you know roughly about what time it happened that will narrow it down a little, double click on the error and it will open another window with some info that may help to show what the problem is so take a screen shot and post it :)
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Hi Adept
I've never disabled AVG before installing Detonator
The reason for disabling Anti-Virus software is that some programs need to alter the registry and system files and the Anti-Virus program can prevent this, although probably not Detonator drivers
Brian 8)
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I turned the computer on at around 6.10 am and there are several events relating to drivers not being installed, but this is to be expected in Safe Mode anyway. There is a reference to a failed attempt to connect to the internet (obviously not possible in safe mode) The next flurry of activity was at 8.37 when I returned to the computer, touched the mouse, and had an automatic reboot. I've shown that error message in the next post.
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error message
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@Clive
Found this on the web, may shed some light on the problem, also bugcheck is started by USB problems more than any other ause
Errors of this type are usually caused by faulty hardware, although software can do the same thing; antivirus products are often the cause.
To check if it's a software problem, perform a clean install, but before installing any software leave the system running. If you don't get the error, it would suggest a software fault.
Try reinstalling your applications one by one. After each install leave the system running for a while. That way, if the machine crashes, you will know which piece of software to blame.
However, it's much more likely that hardware is playing up. Have you overclocked your processor? If so, try dropping the speed back to see if this solves the problem.
If this doesn't change anything, the problem is likely to be with either the memory or the motherboard. Windows XP uses more memory than Windows 98 Again this is going to have to be a case of trial and error. If you can, swap the memory in your machine with RAM from another. If the problems stop on your machine but start on the other, you've got your culprit.
Using a process of elimination it shouldn't take long to track the problem down to a stick of memory. Fortunately, memory is dirt-cheap at the moment, so it's not an expensive problem to fix.
Brian :)
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Still on good old IE Clive! ::) ;) ;D
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you little turd turncoat, you said you woz on Moz, Clive you've let me and Simon down badly :'( ;D ;)
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It's his age Tony - you know what it's like trying to get these pensioners to change thier ways!
(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apax34.dsl.pipex.com%2Fsmileys%2Fheehee1.gif&hash=4cedfc4d873e04d55bdbc11d35d26a65d327e957) :baad:
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I use both IE and Mozilla at the same time. Mozilla is very useful for those dodgy sites which disable the back button you know! How I hate those. I'm going to try and force a BSOD tomorrow and get a definitive error message. When I only get one problem a day - not long after first boot - it's very easy to live with. Today for example it has been impeccable apart from the 9am event. I start to panic when, for apparently no reason, it becomes more frequent. The day it happened 14 times made me think that the end was in sight.
If we are talking about a re-install of Windows, a new motherboard and new RAM, I think I would consider buying a new machine as they are relatively inexpensive these days. I don't need a top of the range model as all I use it for is WP and Internet.
I haven't overclocked it Brian, it's a 2200 so it's quite fast enough as it is. But I think I should start backing everything up in readiness for a major disaster.
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Unfortunately I didn't press F8 at the correct time this morning and it booted up to Normal mode. I rebooted to Safe Mode and left the machine on for 2 hours. There was no event at all today. This seems to mean that a second reboot immediately after the first will prevent the fault taking place. Not sure of that is meaningful to anyone!
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Fron a non-techie point of view, I'm starting to wonder if something may be being affected by heating up when you first boot from cold. I think if it were my PC and I had time on my hands, I might take out, clean and reseat the Graphics Card, PCI Cards, and Memory Sticks first, and possibly even refit the CPU.
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The trouble is that all that has already been done and it made no difference. What completely baffles me is the 10 days or so when the problem kept repeating itself many times a day. Why has it reverted to its usual once-a-day pattern now?
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Hi Clive
XP has a learning curve and when it reboots due to a driver load error it will give more time to the system to load drivers thats why it sometimes clears up problems by it self
Brian :D
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That's interesting to know Brian. Pity it can't carry the information over to the following day isn't it? ;D
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Just a thought. Is there any way I can force it to boot up more slowly on a permanent basis?
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That's interesting to know Brian. Pity it can't carry the information over to the following day isn't it? ;D
That is exactly what it does do, it alters the time allowed for each driver to load and retains that information in the Master Boot Record/Registry
Brian ;D
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After yesterday's "double boot up" the machine was stable all day and therewere no problems. Today I successfully booted up into safe mode and after 80 minutes the display was intact and there was no BSOD. I wonder if disabling automatic restart might have helped solve this problem?
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Stranger things have happened - let's hope the problem is solved. :D
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All fingers and toes are firmly crossed Simon! ;D
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http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;291806 (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;291806)
CAUSE
This behavior occurs because a driver or other problem damaged the input/output (I/O) driver structures.
The link relates more to Win2000, but virtually the same issue with XP.
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Well, this miserable saga continues to give me grief. It was perfectly fine first this morning before I went to work. Normally I'm not away too long so I leave my computer switched on. However, today, Mrs Clive is away and knowing that I would not be back myself until this afternoon, I took the precaution of switching my machine off. When I rebooted after I returned, and began to enter in all the data of today's work, the display started to break up again and very quickly froze up. It didn't automatically reboot as I've disabled that facility, so I had to switch it off at the mains.
Ket, I don't really understand what you mean by "CAUSE: This behavior occurs because a driver or other problem damaged the input/output (I/O) driver structures." Does that mean that a driver has damaged some hardware? I've taken a screen shot of the event log for you to see.
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Sorry to hear about your continuing problems, Clive. Although not specific to this issue, can I recommend that rather than powering off at the mains, you just press the reset button on the case if your system freezes? If that fails, pressing the start button on the case usually persuades Windows to shut down a little more gracefully. If that fails still, press and hold the start button on the case for about 5 seconds for an immediate shut down. All of the above are a little less brutal than a sudden mains power off.
As you've obviously taken every measure to check for spyware / viruses etc, it looks like this will be a case of swapping hardware components until you find the cause of the problem. Naturally, the culprit will be the last thing you choose.
The only other thing I can suggest is a complete format and re-installation of XP, which may act to repair any damaged drivers.
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By "switching off at the mains" I mean pressing the switch on the case until it powers down. I have to be honest with you Simon, I don't really want to swap components as that could prove more expensive than buying a new machine and would be incredibly inconvenient and time consuming. If it continues to be just one event a day then it's not a problem. It's just that it would be nice to find out what the culprit is in the first place.
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I managed to get a BSOD at exactly 20 minutes this morning... here it is:
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Stop 0x24 seems to be an NTFS error of some kind Clive.
See here (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=228888) for details :)
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It all seems to point towards drivers again doesn't it?
"This issue can occur if a problem occurred within the Ntfs.sys file. The Ntfs.sys file is the driver file that enables your computer to read and write to NTFS partitions. Damage in the NTFS file system, damaged portions of your hard disk, or damaged SCSI or IDE drivers can also cause this issue."
I have to get to work now but I'll perservere with this when I get back. 8)
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@Clive
I think you are looking at reinstall of XP Clive, you can try to repair the installation by sticking the XP CD in and running repair current installation but my advice is,fdisk /mbr format, repartition and do a clean install
Brian ???
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I've run CHKDSK and that shows no problems. It says to switch off antivirus progs etc and run hardware diagnostic tools supplied by the computer manufacturer. Where can I find those and what is it called?
I'm sure a re-installation of Windows is probably a good idea Brian, but I would like to have a go at "repair" first because I am pretty cowardly. ;D What will I see if I insert my XP disk? Does it give a repair option in the first screen? If I do a full re-install would I lose all my programs and settings...? gulp.
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Repair is the best option Clive as full instal means you will lose everything including all MSN updates :-\
Have a gander at this Clive ;)
http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsXP/expertzone/tips/dougknox/doug92.asp
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Thanks Hook! ;D
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If I were you Clive I'd let the bunch of cowboys that you bought it from have a look at for you :-X
Letting them have it for a few days would be far preferable to you cocking it up being without your PC permanently :-\
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The repair options looks like DOS, but doesn't really behave in that way at all. I would do some research before attempting to repair - otherwise you'll just be left confused! :D
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:aarrgh: But their best man has left! ;D If the worst really does come to the worst I can take it to Mad Eddie. He's a TV repair guy who is a genius with computers but completely around the twist.
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Well if it's DOS, that is Mad Eddie's forte. :D
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Today's BSOD sends different greetings ;D
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0x50 - basically data was requested from memory, and it wasn't found... or what was found was incorrect and had a bad effect on the pc.
Ok, well TEST YOUR MEMORY! - if you have 2 sticks, pull one out. Test until BSOD/other problems - then swap with the pulled out stick with the one thats in there.
If you still get errors, then I would probably suggest that the mainboard is faulty - with the problems with the graphics, I would suggest that the NORTHBRIDGE CHIPSET is damaged in some way - this is the chip usually found below the CPU, and will normally (these days) have a heatsink on it (and perhaps a small fan).
This NBC is like traffics lights for data flowing between CPU, MEMORY, AGP and SOUTHBRIDGE CHIPSET (another story), so if this goes faulty then replace mainboard - as you can tell from the heatsink, it does get stressed.
Good luck with that memory testing! I hope its a stick of memory because that will probably be cheaper to replace (mainboards are quite reasonable now tho)...
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Isn't symevent.sys part of Norton Crashguard?
If it is and you have Crashguard installed Clive, you would be well advised to remove it. Crashguard is the cause of more and varied BSODs that I care to mention :(
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I don't, to the best of my knowledge, have Norton Crashguard installed, unless it is part of Norton Utilities suite. If it is, it's not very apparent. But I'll uninstall Norton Utilities to see of that helps as I've always had it on this machine. If it proves to be a memory stick or motherboard then I will cast my fate to Mad Eddie. :)
Ha! Norton's Utilities will not uninstall as it reckons it is unable to locate the installation log file!
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If you have the CD, reinstall it on top of itself, then either uninstall it again, or see what happens in the morning!
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That was a good tip Simon! ;D I've uninstalled it now and I'm so excited about the morning that I probably won't sleep tonight! ;D
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In my humble opinion if the memory is OK do a new install. the system/registry files are corrupt and I'm not certain that a repair will fix it, if its not the memory it could be the hard drive going legs up.
Brian ;D
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Uninstalling Utilities didn't make any difference. But we have a different BSOD message today. I'm beginning to think that these messages are pretty meaningless if they are so inconsistent.
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A STOP 0x8E message indicates a problem/corruption of a Kernel mode device driver. It can also indicate faulty RAM :(
I also found this (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=330187) MS Knowledgebase article, which appears interesting as it mentions the GDI or Grphical Device Interface :-\
Is there any more info in the Event Viewer for that BSOD Clive?
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Clive, I've just read something which mentioned Quicktime as the source of a problem similar to yours.
It may be worth downloading and installing the latest version :-\
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There was a flurry of activity in the event log referring to:
The scriptblocking service entered the stopped state.
The SSDP service entered the running state.
The NVAP service was successfully sent a start control.
The NAVEX 15 service was succesfully sent a start control.
The NAVENG service was succesfully sent a start control.
The SSDP service was succesfully sent a start control.
The fast user switching compatibility service entered the running state.
The SymEvent service was succesfully sent a start control.
The Terminal Services service entered the running state.
All these took place at 07:11:18 and are in reverse order. But just before that it logged Application popups and Save Dump (07:09)
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This is the event log...
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Clive do you not have any red Xs just before the time of your BSOD ?
Check the applications log as well as the system log for red Xs :)
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There are some in the applications log which coincide with the BSOD's of the 27th, 28th and 29th but not since. Perhaps they refer to applications which were not properly shut down?
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There are some in the applications log which coincide with the BSOD's of the 27th, 28th and 29th but not since. Perhaps they refer to applications which were not properly shut down?
Have you clicked on the link to the Microsoft site Clive? It may give you some useful information ...
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What it says is "A "STOP: 0x0000008E" Error Message Occurs When You Change the Hardware Acceleration Setting
SYMPTOMS
When you try to change the Hardware Acceleration setting in the Display tool in Control Panel from None to Full, you may receive the following Stop error message in Win32k.sys:
STOP: 0x0000008E (c0000005, bf875fc3, f07bcd48, 00000000)
KERNEL_MODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED"
But I haven't changed the Hardware Acceleration setting Adept - in fact I can't even find it! :D It's interesting to note that they say that there will be a fix in a future service pack so maybe SP2 might sort it?
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Clive its in display properties/settings/advanced then in that window trouble shoot.
Maybe if you drop it from full to about 2/3 and see if anything happens ???
Its still looking like a display driver issue though isnt it :(
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Everything seems to be in order Sandra as all the settings are on medium or low.
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I still think that the simplest way forward is to save everything you need, then format and re-install Windows, Clive. It could be done in an evening, but you might be running round in circles trying to find the cause of these inconsistent error messages for weeks. If that doesn't sort it, then you know it has to be a hardware problem.
Unless, of course, you are going for the record of the longest unsolved thread on Pals! ;D ;D
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Everything seems to be in order Sandra as all the settings are on medium or low.
Just a thought ... why not try it on full acceleration? ??? ::)
Hang on, "all the settings" ? How many sliders do you have Clive? :o There should only be one AFAIK.
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Slight user error folks. ;D I can't have been in the right screen the first time I tried that accelerator but I found it straight away this time. It was in fact on full. :-[ I've moved the slider to two thirds now. Grovelling apologies. ;D
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Dont forget to run that RAM testing prog from here too Clive :
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
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I downloaded that Sandra but it wouldn't boot up from the floppy. I found another from ZDNet which included a boot program but it was for Intel only and I have an Athlon.
Anyway - hot on the heels of NVIDIA's March 15th new driver, they have today issued another!
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_56.72
Tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow.... ;D
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Clive you probably either downloaded the file straight to the floppy instead of to the hard drive first then running it and telling it to create a floppy or, your boot sequence is set to boot from the hard drive as the first boot device.
Just go into bios and select floppy as the first boot device and it should run ok, dont forget to reset it afterwards but as long as its first boot device is the floppy and the second as HDD 0 then it wont matter about changing it back :)
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Clive you probably either downloaded the file straight to the floppy instead of to the hard drive first then running it and telling it to create a floppy
I did! I did! ;D OK testing RAM to destruction tomorrow. ;D
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Shhhhhhh... is that a swallow I see up in yonder sky? Be very still.
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It's been on for 12 hours now and no hint of a problem. I'm out tonight so the machine will be inactive long enough to re-create the instability if it is going to happen. If I spot any more swallows I will let you know on my return. ;D
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OUT??[/i] >:( >:( ;D
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If I spot any more swallows I will let you know on my return. ;D
Forget about swallows Clive - just don't count your chickens ;D :D
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A second swallow just flew past. ;D
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Naturally it was all too good to be true. Today's message is:
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Information on STOP 0xC2 errors can be found here (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;314492)
Still looks like a driver or memory issue Clive :(
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A second swallow just flew past. ;D
Did you say swallow...gulp :o ;) You sure your not trying to pull a swift one Clive ::) ;D
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:aarrgh: I can tell you that it's driving me cuckoo Camstop. ;D
I've downloaded Sandra's RAM tester and found that it was very easy to use. It showed no errors at all and claimed that the RAM was unlikely to be at fault.
As Adept says, everything is still pointing to faulty drivers and I tried downloading the debugger. Unfortunately it's an 8Mb file and although it claims to download onto a 1.4 Mb floppy??? it won't install as it says I should use a larger floppy.
What I'm going to do next is to cut that acceleration back a bit again since it certainly appeared to have an effect yesterday. I don't recall a single day in the past year when the problem hasn't occurred and it really seems too much of a coincidence that it didn't happen yesterday following my furtive fiddle of the previous day.
Edit: The accelerator is now just under half.
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This is today's BSOD but I think I'll turn the reboot back on now as I'm sure it's safer for my computer.
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Clive ..have you ran DXDIAG ?? to see if there is anything showing up in that.
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Thanks for the input Hook. I just tried it and it claims there are no problems.
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NP Clive ;)
Just a thought though ;D quote from saint Adept earlier on
Chganging the refresh rate won't help as you have an LCD panel. It needs to be 1024x768 at 60KHz to give the best picture.
I noticed in the DXDIAG picture yours was set at 800 x 600, 32 bit 60Hz
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This is today's BSOD but I think I'll turn the reboot back on now as I'm sure it's safer for my computer.
Doesn't make any difference Clive - your PC still crashes either way. At least with a BSOD you get some information that it has happened.
Is there any further information in the Event Log about this STOP 0xC5 error? All I can find the knowledgebase relates to Windows 2000 and Logitech mouse drivers ???
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There are only the usual references in the event log at the time of this morning's crash Adept.
However, I was particularly interested to notce the reference to Logitech mouse drivers. If you remember, when I first had this machine, it came with an optical mouse, and I had problems when using the scroll wheel. The screen would freeze up after a while and double images would appear. I began a thread about it, but probably on a long-since defunct forum where many of us were members. ;D It was only after I switched the optical mouse for an older mouse which I had squirreled away (as yer do) that the "collapsing screen syndrome" started happening. It is always the use of the scroll wheel that makes the problem take place.
However, before we all start shouting "Eureka!" I should also remind us all that if the machine is just left switched on after first bootup, it will often result in a completely blank bright grey screen.
I no longer have the optical mouse but it would be an interesting experiment to see what would happen if I could swap back to it. If my son is no longer using it, I'll ask him to bring it home next weekend, but it may be useful if I bought another mouse to try out anyway.
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Just a thought though ;D quote from saint Adept earlier on
Chganging the refresh rate won't help as you have an LCD panel. It needs to be 1024x768 at 60KHz to give the best picture.
I noticed in the DXDIAG picture yours was set at 800 x 600, 32 bit 60Hz
I just tried changing that Hook but it makes everything too small to read without a magnifying glass. ;D
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@Clive
Try the colour settings at 16 bit instead of 32 bit, it can make a big difference. The other thing to do is to start up in "safe mode" (F8)right click on my computer, select properties, hardware then device manager, check that there is only one display device installed and there is only on mouse device as well, delete any other devices in those categories and re-boot
Brian ;D
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That's a good idea, Brian. Could we, perchance, dream of an end to this saga?? ;) :P ;D ;D
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Thanks Brian. I've now changed the colour setting from 32 bit to 16 bit and checked that I don't have duplicate drivers (see screen shot)
I feel that the computer is offering us a massive clue as to what is amiss but I have no idea how to interpretate it. Let's recap:
When I switch it on, it behaves faultlessly for 20 minutes or so, after which it becomes unstable and crashes or re-boots.
After the re-boot it will happily continue to behave impeccably for the rest of the day.
Unless ... I leave it unattended for several hours, after which the "20 minute law" comes into force again and it will crash again.
Surely there has to be some significance in this "20 minute" thing? What is taking place after 20 minutes, yet doesn't happen again for the rest of the day? If is a faulty driver surely it would be faulty all the time and not just at 20 minutes?
Edit: Oops - forgot screen shot :-[
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Out of curiosity, what's 'SnagIt', Clive?
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Dare we ask Simon :o
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I've just found it - it's a screen capture utility. Must be why he keeps putting digital photo's of his monitor on here! :pmsl:
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Yes, it's screen capture software which will allow you to capture individual icons etc. Mrs Clive uses it a lot on her computer.
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Do you still have the Logitech Mouse software loaded Clive? Might be worth uninstalling it if you are no longer using a Logitech mouse.
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Dare we ask Simon :o
I thought it might have been a mis-spelling. ;) ;D ;D
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My last thoughts on this problem are in this order
1. If I was reading it from the start I would say that it was bad memory
2. or a hard drive problem with the computer not writing back to the page-file correctly (XP constantly writes to and reads from the hard drive even when not being used)
3. Video card drivers
4. USB drivers
If you have covered all these then I would say it was the motherboard or damaged system files
There is little else i can contribute to this problem
Brian :'(
PS I see my dogie is still walking
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Removing the Logitech mouse driver was my very first attempt at solving the problem. I was quite surprised that the mouse continued to work after that! ;D
Now I have another redundant driver installed on the machine for an Alcatel USB BB modem. I wonder if it might be worth getting rid of it too? It can't do any harm can it?
Replying to Brian's suggestion of damaged system files, that would suggest that the original installation of Windows was faulty since the problem has always been present. Is it possible for that to happen? I can understand Windows degrading over time, but not a faulty installation.
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@Clive
Remove all redundant drivers, if they are installed then XP will install them at bootup, yes you can have a faulty installation of XP this can be caused by a fault copy of XP on a CD, you can also have a corrupt page-file which can be removed and will reinstall itself,
Even if you removed the mouse driver from the system files all the information is held in the registry and the Master Boot record
Brian ;D
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Yes, it does load on start up and appears in my system tray Brian. I'll get rid of it tomorrow.
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A slight variation this morning in as much that I had longer than my 20 minutes worth and after several screen collapses, it just froze up without generating a BSOD. Not sure if that is meaningful.
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@Clive
I think the time has come when you need to seek professional help with this problem, if the computer is crashing,, freezing showing unpredictable behavior like this there is something defiantly wrong, If I were you I would save all your data format the drive and reinstall XP or another OS if that doesn't work take the computer to a repair shop and let them look at it, a computer that is not reliable is worse than no computer at all and at any time you could loose all your program data and files
Brian :'(.
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I would look back on the thread, but it is a tad big ::) Have you had this problem from the off regards this PC ?
I had a new LDC on a new build PC, that somtimes fired up and somtimes didn't. I did not get BSOD, the PC did not crash, it just left you with a blank screen, I take it you have tried other LCD or even CRT monitors on the PC?
Brian is right, if all else has been tried, it is time for a reformat and reinstall. If only to eliminate any doubt that it is a PC problem, as against a monitor problem.
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Yes it's always happened Tony. Just the luck of the draw really. I've tried a different monitor and it's just the same. I think Brian is right about me seeking professional advice.
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did you try a CRT monitor as well, Clive?
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I didn't Tony, and I don't have one here at the moment as I've given them all away. :)
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No time for this today. Very busy day at work. :'(
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I didn't Tony, and I don't have one here at the moment as I've given them all away. :)
Should have kept the monitor and given the PC away
Brian :lol: :slug:
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:heehee: