PC Pals Forum
Technical Help & Discussion => Self Building, Upgrading & General Hardware Help => Topic started by: white fly on March 30, 2004, 20:36
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ok , im using my dads pc to come on pc pals and use the net and so on , but my dad needs it for his work so i have decided to start from scratch , i thought to my self , should i get a notebook or build my own pc :-\ , but in he end ( to get more experience and financialy more rewarding )
i have decided to go for pc option but i need to know what basic parts i will need .
i would like it to have decent graphics , good sound card and over all a fast system
i need help !!
thanks
White Fly 8)
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ok , im using my dads pc to come on pc pals and use the net and so on , but my dad needs it for his work so i have decided to start from scratch , i thought to my self , should i get a notebook or build my own pc :-\ , but in he end ( to get more experience and financialy more rewarding )
i have decided to go for pc option but i need to know what basic parts i will need .
i would like it to have decent graphics , good sound card and over all a fast system
i need help !!
thanks
White Fly 8)
For anybody that had trouble reading the post ;)
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What's your budget, WF? Don't be under the mis-apprehension that it will be cheaper to build your own, as that is often not the case. What you will gain, however, is the experience, the knowledge, and the pride of making your own PC, knowing what's inside it, and knowing it's not mass produced cr@p. :)
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Much appreciated Hook! ;D
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sorry about the writing everyone , ::)
simon , my budget is about £250 - £300 . i could always make a very basic one with that much couldnt i ?
and then upgrade later on ???
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You could cut costs by getting a mobo that has integrated sound and graphics on board.
If the graphics and sound werent up to what you really want or need then you could upgrade both later but some of the onboard sounds are very good these days with 6.1 sound or even more :)
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I would be surprised if you were able to stick to a maximum budget of £300, WF, but as Sandra said you'd have to be looking at onboard GFX and sound to cut costs. Onboard sound isn't a problem, but make sure you get a mobo with an AGP slot, so you can upgrade the GFX at a later stage. I can practically guarantee you will want to, as most budget boards don't carry 'gamers' GFX.
Don't forget, it's the bits you don't think of which bump up the costs, such as Case, Fans (CPU and Case), Leads, Modem, Keyboard, Mouse, Speakers, and what about a Monitor? You're talking about £70 for a budget CRT, which is going to knock quite a hole in your £300. Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear, but being realistic, to start from absolute zero, you've got to be looking for a minimum budget of about £500.
Have a look at some online retailers, and build yourself a shopping cart in each, to compare costs. If you're going to buy online, it pays to get most of the stuff from one or two retailers, so as to avoid extra shipping costs. Some of the cheapest I have found are Watford Electronics, Redstore, Novatech, CCL, and Dabs.
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With that budget I'd go this route,
AMD XP 2500+ Barton with cooler
Sparkle 128MB GeForce FX5200 8XAGP Graphics
512MB DDR PC3200 400Mhz Memory
From http://www.cclcomputers.biz/acatalog/ (http://www.cclcomputers.biz/acatalog/) cost delivered £165.11
Motherboard AsRock K7S8XE
Fromhttp://www.dabs.com/uk/shopbybrand/GenericBrand/products.htm?catid=192&Family=2315 (http://www.dabs.com/uk/shopbybrand/GenericBrand/products.htm?catid=192&Family=2315) cost delivered £36.74
Sub Total £201.85
The above has got you good solid basics, and it will be fast , I know coz I built one to that same spec for a mate [only with 512MB 333Mhz memory]
Going the on board Graphics route means sharing your avaliable free memory, I'd rather not.
Right add Hard drive, RW-CD Drive,Case with PSU, Modem, floppy [if you want, but not essential] And A monitor if you must ;D oh and a OS if you have to ::)
Budgets are set, so you know how much your over spend was, to the penny ;D
Tony
PS: waddaya mean you need a keyboard/mouse and speakers, you beg steal or borrow them.In Army parlance it's called "living of the land" ;)
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Well, assuming you're not going to steal the stuff, the additional items Tony mentioned have got to cost at least £250, and I haven't included a modem (if you have Broadband, you won't need a 56K), or a Floppy Disc. That's another thing, how are you going to connect? If you want broadband, there's another expense, although Pipex do a very good deal on a Starter Pack.
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He shouldnt need a modem Simon, all he needs is an ethernet card if his mobo hasnt an onboard connection and he can either share his dads using his dads pc as a gateway or he can get a router and then they can connect independantly of each other :)
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the phone isnt connected to my room ???
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the line only goes to my dads office not my room , where i want the pc , any ideas ???
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How far is your dads office from the room that you will have your pc in ?
I assume that its in the same house.
Is it easy to run an ethernet cable from the office to your room ?
Thats the cheapest and simplest way.
The other way is to have a WAP (Wireless Application Point) to send to a wi fi pci card in your pc but that would be a bit more expensive :(
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thanks sandra , ill ask me dad , then i can start getting the case and components
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i know all the info was for WF but i'm building my own pc from scratch too and all this info is greatly apriceiated. thanks. ;)
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what kind of case would you lot recoment , i saw a nice one in lel computers the other day with blue perspex on the front it looked pretty cool , but for £55 ( bit pricey , maybe ) or should i go to a local computer fair ?
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would you guys reccomend buying components and a case and other stuff from a pc dealer/shop or from a pc fair! :-\ I mean i know pc fairs wuold be the cheapest option but all the components could be damaged and i may not be able to get a refund or better conditioned components!
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Well, although I am not a user of PC fairs myself, I know a lot of people who wouldn't buy from anywhere else. I think you will find that the same traders turn up at these fairs every week and any reputable one will give you their telephone number. You may not be able to buy the very latest top spec gear from them but that shouldn't be a problem for you. Last time I visited one they were selling keyboards for £2 each!
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Its probably safer to get them from a shop as you can exchange faulty parts as soon as you think theres a fault,if you get any faulty parts that is, without waiting for the next fair and hoping that the same guy is there that time :(
When buying a case, think about where it is going to be placed.
I know people who spend a lot of money for fancy perspex sides with lights in and fancy fronts, only to have them stuck under their desk where they cant see them and they have to bend down to be able to see where to put the cd or floppy in ::)
The main thing about the case is that its big enough to take whatever you want to put in it now and possibly at a later date and that if it comes with a PSU in already that it is rated high enough for what you need now and in the future :)
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thanks , but what about all of the componants , motherboards , GFX and sound cards ???
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by the way clive how long was i since the last computer fair you visited ?
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Not been to one for around two years. A friend of mine visits them regularly though. When he bought a part which was unsuitable, he phoned the guy who told him to come to his house to exchange it.
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Microsoft Internet Keyboard & Optical mouse bundle £15.36 from CCL, I would recommend that.
Remember your system will only be as good as the components you use.
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For the price, I can recommend this case from CCL. Plenty of room for everything you need.
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Well dont keep the lad in suspenders...tell him the bloody price :-X
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::) £31.43 delivered.[/b]
By the way, I've been to lots of computer fairs, and to be honest, you often still find things cheaper online, unless of course, you want to go down the route of second hand parts, which personally I wouldn't advise.
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simon , have you got the case above ?
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Yes. 8)
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MMMMMM thats a nice carpet Simon.........me Gran had on just like that ;D
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Yes, and it's probably about as old as she was! ;D ;D
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Simon ;D
Is that a little black book I spy on top of your BB Modem :P
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Blimey, how big do you think BB modems are?? :o That's a scanner! ;D ;D
Oh, and the item on top of the scanner is the MS Security Update CD, as yet unopened. :-X
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Thought it was a small pc Simon :D Anyway how would I know how big a BB modem is :-\
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You could've bought some black drives to go with it Simon! ::)
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And a HI-Speed universal Serial bus 4 port underneath the floppy bought from e buyer ;D
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You could've bought some black drives to go with it Simon! ::)
Or a can of matt black spray paint works quite well too, and its cheap ;)
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I wanted something a little different. Actually I think it looks quite good! 8)
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i suppose its not bad for the price , but i can get a better one from LEL computers just up the road from where i live ,for £29.49 , chrome and blue perspex , i know i keep going on about it so i think i might get it :D
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I think it makes the carpet look good... ;D ;D ;D :P ;)
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yes simon the case is nice and the carpets great too ;D i know the case fly is on about and its nice.i wanna get a black case from l.e.l and it got a bit of light blue perspex the rest is black.i think it's £45-£50. i told my dad i was building a pc an he said to get components from a site called over clocking and he said its cheap wot would you say :-\
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have ya got a link to this site ?? , spark
saw a nice case today at pc world , can't really describe it though , it had sort of a metalic blue colour with see through perspex , it looked real hi-tech but for £59.99 , well over my budget :)
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There are two sites: www.overclock.co.uk, and www.overclockers.co.uk. I have to admit, I have never bought anything from either of them, as I have always found what I needed cheaper elsewhere, but that's not to say they are bad companies, and you may well find some bargains.
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amd or pentium , which is best ??
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well there's a question, you'll kick more arse with 60 quids worth of AMD than you will with 60 quids worth of Intel.
like most things in life................it's all down to money, or the lack of it ;D
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so your saying me and spark should go 4 AMD :-\
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If you had, say, £50 to spend on a processor, you could get a faster AMD then you could a Pentium. I've always used AMDs and had no problems.
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If you had, say, £50 to spend on a processor, you could get a faster AMD then you could a Pentium.
You loose abit with the echo ;D
I've always used AMDs and had no problems.
Me Too
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cases http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd3N1YmNhdGVnb3J5X3NlYXJjaA==&cat_uid=23
Mobo's http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd3N1YmNhdGVnb3J5X3NlYXJjaA==&cat_uid=14
Proccessors http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd3N1YmNhdGVnb3J5X3NlYXJjaA==&cat_uid=22
Take ya pick boys
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If you had, say, £50 to spend on a processor, you could get a faster AMD then you could a Pentium.
You loose abit with the echo ;D
Thought I'd seen that somewhere before - anyway, it seems like there was a need to translate. ;D
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hook , is E BUYER a secure site , my dad wants to know detail wise ? :)
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hook , is E BUYER a secure site , my dad wants to know detail wise ? :)
I have dealt with E-Buyer four or five times over the last 6 months. If everything goes OK with your order, the service you get is efficient and fast. Their prices are excellent and the web site is well designed and secure.
BUT if something goes wrong you will find it incredibly difficult to get anything sorted out. It is impossible to speak to anyone by telephone, you have to use a messaging system on the web site. I have found that replies to queries take a minimum of 1 day and usually 2 days. :(
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Another annoying thing with E-Buyer is that unless you pay for the premium shipping service, they make you wait 4 or 5 days for your goods to arrive, which seems uncessesary, when they have them in stock, and could send them straight away. Dabs often offer closely comparable prices to E-Buyer, and the deliveries are generally faster, and cheaper.
I would take Adept's point on board though. It's the same with most online retailers, in that it's a hassle when things go wrong, especially if you get a faulty product, when, through no fault of your own, you are made to return the item, and wait up to three weeks for them to check that it is indeed faulty, before they will give you a replacement or a refund.
I'm not trying to put you off online shopping, because, generally, it's the cheapest and best way, as you get much more choice of products than you would in any high street retailer. Just be aware of the possible pitfalls.
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simon , have you got a link to this DABS site , please
much appriciated 8)
FLY
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Err... try www.dabs.co.uk. ;)
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I'm giving up with these kid's, they just don't pay attention do they. They ask for advice and obviously ignore most of it, I went to time and trouble with my first post on this thread, by providing clickable links to both CCL and Dab's web sites.
Now my four year old Grandson is taking his O levels next year because he has come on so much, by listening to the wisdom I impart
;D ;D ;D
So I'll leave these young whippa snapper's to you Simon ::) ;)
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Why thank you Tony ;D
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:lol: and Hooky ::)
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we got the link that hook gave us , also much appriciated ,also me dads gona order me the JNC 8676 300W ATX Case With Side Window Front Firewire/Usb/Audio all for £9.99 , £15'ish including V.A.T and delivery , not bad for my 1st case ;D
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by the way tony we do listen to you and all the others advice , very thankful, but gonna start work buildi'n me 1st computer now , yey ! :D
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Best of luck white fly in your project. :)
Have you deceided on a spec yet, or are you taking the Jackdoor approach to PC building. ;D
What is the Brief for the project ? How cheap can I put a PC together for, or it is to be a bespoke built PC of quality ?
Word of advice white fly, ordering a component here, a component there, online, will result in a lot of delivery costs. When building PC's I try to limit my ordering to a max of two companies, one order each.
Learning curves can be expensive, worse still if you eventually find that somehow you have end up on a roundabout ;D
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me dads gona order me the JNC 8676 300W ATX Case With Side Window Front Firewire/Usb/Audio all for £9.99 , £15'ish including V.A.T and delivery , not bad for my 1st case ;D
Make sure he gets you some plasters as well! ;D ;D
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You know what they say Simon,
your always better to work with crap first, that way you really appreciate the good kit when you by it ;D
I believed besides plasters not being included, neither is the mains lead. ::)
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better to learn from my mistakes ay simon , so if owt goes wrong i aint buggared £60 av i ;D , anyway for my first case its ok ?
P.S - how many posts do i have to have to become a full member , and N.O , not to accses the danger zone , i understand im to young ::)
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Keep posting, WF - you're nearly there. ;)
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whitefly nobody can really tell you what to put in your pc because then it wouldnt be yours i wud suggest learnin how first becoz no offence matthew but from what i heard at school you dont know the components so it wud be hard to build a pc at this stage... take things slower...
a gud site to learn wud be http://www.pcmech.com/build.htm (http://www.pcmech.com/build.htm) it wud take a while to learn but it wud be worth it ;D
and flamespark i am sorry but you wont be buyin much from a pc fair becoz matthew knows more than you and he doesnt know the components there is no chance of you knowing wat is wat at a pc fair and once you have bought sumthing u wud not know how to put it on.... you 2 really ennoy me at school becoz u both talk bout buildin pcs and goin to computer fairs but u dnt no anything about pcs... please learn !!!! ;)
sincerely PoD
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:lol: This is better than Grange Hill ;D ;D ;D
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FIGHT FIGHT ;D
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:tony: Do they not teach English and spelling in school anymore :tony: :P
DJ
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:tony: Do they not teach English and spelling in school anymore :tony: :P
DJ
:lol: I can't understand arf of wot dey put! ::)
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for your information jonah POD , i have sombody else helping me with building the pc ,you also annoy me at school as you think that your the only one entitled to be involved with pc's , YOUR NOT ! , and yes i admit that im still learning about all the componants and so on , still that gives you no right to tell me what i can and can't do ! >:( i also have a good site that i can learn off and yes , it's a lot better than the link you stated above , i go to computer fairs if i like , when i like , got it ? >:( keep your nose out of other peoples buisness , especialy mine and sparks , GOT IT >:( >:( >:(
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Look guys, this is a technical help thread, and we try to keep these parts of the forum reasonably sensible. Please don't let this degenerate into another playground squabble, or we'll have to close the thread.
:naughty:
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i understand that simon , and agree that this thread should be kept a sensible place but with people such as POD making that difficult whilst im trying to to listen / read all of your great infomation of how to make computering better and how to thoughtfully solve others problems before your own , it is pretty easy to lose it ;)
i'm very grateful to all of you , thanks again ;)
:) anyway , back to discussing building pc's and other great topics , PC PALS is brilliant :)
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Everybody has to start somewhere. I didn't have a clue about building computers, until I built my own, which is the one I'm still using right now. I learned from taking advice from people on here, and by reading tutorials in magazines, and on the Internet. It's actually not that difficult to learn where the main components all go, and not difficult to fit them together, as long as you are patient, and willing to learn, sometimes from your own mistakes. The main thing to remember is that some of the components are quite delicate, and are not made to be treated like sticklebricks. They can also be expensive, and it could, for example, cost you a £60 CPU by simply dropping it and bending a pin, or not fitting the heatsink carefully enough. Be prepared, be focussed, be careful, and you'll have made yourself something to be proud of.
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im going to a computer fair tomorrow ( thursday ) and im just wondering if anybody would recomend any cheap but good quality and stylish ;) cases that i could look out for
thanks , WF
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The appearance of the case isnt that important to its functionality WF.
The size of mobo, number of bays and expansion slots and the power of the PSU, if already fitted, are more important :)
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ok , sandra , thanks , so i should look out for somthing with enougth room to work with , a good number of bays and expansion slots , thanks WF
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by the way , my dads pc is becoming really slow at loading , im not guite sure whats the matter , any ideas ( i know this thread is only ment to be for building pc's but im not sure whats a matter ?? ) WF
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Also a decent PSU rated at a minimum of 300 watts, although these days I would be looking for around 400 plus especially if you may be adding extra fans and making full use of all the IDE drives that you can run :)
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Do you mean on its initial boot up WF ?
Which OS is he using and has it been gradually slowing down over a few days or weeks ?
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also , im sure you have all seen my dancing MEGAMAN underneth white fly , but unfortunatly he is getting a bit tired , so i wondered what do i have to do to upload my own moving pics off the net as my profile pic ???
WF
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it's been slowing down after a few days
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Is that on its initial boot or loading progs already installed ?
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sandra , the initial boot is fine , it's just loading programs and loading pages on the net , for example , i was waiting at least 10 mins the other day to send a reply on here ???
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sandra , other problem aside , you still havent ansewed my question on page 4 agout the profile pic ?
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Slowness on the net is usually not related to your PC, its usually problems with the server thats hosting the sites or possibly the ISP or your telephone exchange or anywhere in between those 3 and your pc.
A slow pc is faster than the net is.
Slowness opening and loading programs and using your pc is usually down to something using a lot of your CPUs processing power.
This can be unwanted/unknown programs running in the background, usually brought in through downloaded adware and such like.
If you havent got it download and run Adaware or similar to eliminate that possibilty and get back to us :)
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you still havent ansewed my question on page 4 agout the profile pic ?
Sorry about that I was answering what I thought were the most important questions first ;)
Go into Your Profile and there is a section for Personal Text, tick the box where it says I have my own pic and put your own animation or pictures link to your webspace in the box at the side of it.
It can only be a .jpg or a .gif and I think it has to be a maximum size of 100 x 100 pixels and please keep the size in KBs as small as possible as it will slow the page loading down for non BB members :)
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It actually has to be exactly 100 x 100, no larger or smaller. :)
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s'ok simon i got me pic now ,
have you lot seen the case with a fish tank on the side , it looks really cool , i saw it today in me mates pc shopper mag .
not gettin anything like it ever , i know it sounds stupid , but what it gets cracked or starts to leek , it would ruin everything ;)
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anyway , i went to a computer fair the other day , and figured out that i could get a decent system already put together , for the price of me building a standed one , it has some expansion slots so i could upgrade later on if i wish , but thanks for all the help you guys have given me on this thread , i will keep all the info in mind for a later date , as i say ,
i will keep you all posted
much appriciated ;)
WF
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So what did you get WF and did you get and run adaware on your dads pc ?
If so did it speed it up again ?
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no sandra , it is pretty fast now my dad did somthing the other night , it must have sorted it as i would still have been waiting to open word now , anyway do you know of any decent moniters ?
WF
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Think you take pot luck with monitors, I have had a CTX on for the last 3 years which was secondhand when I got it, must be 8 years old now and thats still going strong, although it did have a dry joint about 18 months ago with meant it lost the red off it.
A friend soon fixed it with a soldering iron.
I think theyre ok for the cheaper end of the market.
There are some good secondhand ones around if you look for them, as people go for the TFT ones, look in newspapers, shop windows and supermarkets.
A PC place near me has secondhand ones for sale from trade ins etc, so you may find a local place like that :)
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its cheap really you can get a second hand moniter (crt) from a computer fair for 35 quid :)
PoD