PC Pals Forum

Technical Help & Discussion => Self Building, Upgrading & General Hardware Help => Topic started by: welshy. on September 10, 2005, 20:23

Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 10, 2005, 20:23
I won't go in too detail yet, but my PC seems too crash two ways, #1 it just freezes up and makes a long continuous screeching kind of beep and #2 BOSD saying that, i have to use the debugger to get to the information and the BOSD is just blue, no info on it, the debug info consists mainly of errors with ati3duag and ***** Kernel symbols are WRONG. Please fix symbols to do analysis.


This is just brief info atm, if you need any just ask :p because atm im clueless too whats wrong lol..
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Simon on September 10, 2005, 22:01
Hi Welshy, and  :welcome:

Someone more technical will be along to help you soon, but in the meantime, can you tell us if your PC usually starts up normally, and how long roughly is it before it starts playing up?  Can you think of anything which might be triggering the crashes?  Maybe when you play a particular game, or run a particular program, for example?  Also, have you looked inside your PC at all?  You might want to check that the fans are working OK, including the heatsink / fan on the processor, and check that the memory sticks are seated correctly.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 10, 2005, 23:30
The one long continous beep is usually a memory problem.
Have you run a memtester on it ?
Have you got more than 1 stick of ram ?
If so try removing one and see if it runs ok, if it does the same again remove that one and replace the first one that you removed to see if one is faulty.

Which OS are you running ?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 16:15
Quote from: "Simon"
Hi Welshy, and  :welcome:

Someone more technical will be along to help you soon, but in the meantime, can you tell us if your PC usually starts up normally, and how long roughly is it before it starts playing up?  Can you think of anything which might be triggering the crashes?  Maybe when you play a particular game, or run a particular program, for example?  Also, have you looked inside your PC at all?  You might want to check that the fans are working OK, including the heatsink / fan on the processor, and check that the memory sticks are seated correctly.


The pc boots up fine, and the crashes are completely random too that, yes i've checked inside the PC and all seems fine. The fans are fine, i've recently changed the HS and Fan, too try and make the PC run cooler, and the ram is also seated fine.

Quote from: "Sandra"
The one long continous beep is usually a memory problem.
Have you run a memtester on it ?
Have you got more than 1 stick of ram ?
If so try removing one and see if it runs ok, if it does the same again remove that one and replace the first one that you removed to see if one is faulty.

Which OS are you running ?


Yup it runs memtest non stop with no errors, I have two sticks and i'm running windows XP. The crash I ge ain't on boot up, it will just freeze whilst in windows and make that lng annoying beep.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Simon on September 11, 2005, 17:01
Has this only started since you changed the heatsink & fan?  I don't think it's 'usual' for the long beep to occur, but I just wonder if it's something to do with overheating?  Did you use thermal paste?  Could you have used too much / not enough, or could it not be making proper contact somehow?  Sorry for all the questions, but it does sound like a hardware problem, and as you have just changed some hardware, it makes sense to look there first.  Maybe just refitting the heatsink & fan might do the trick?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 17:55
I fitted a new HS and Fan, with new paste, due to this problem.. I first thought it was also overheating, atm even my side casing is off.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 17:58
Also the beep comes from my speakers, not the PC.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Simon on September 11, 2005, 18:38
Oh right!  That might throw a different light on things.  Have you tried taking out the soundcard, to see what happens?  If it's integrated into the motherboard, I'm guessing you might be able to disable it (temporarily) in BIOS.  It's just a question of elimination, really.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 18:41
Quote from: "Simon"
Oh right!  That might throw a different light on things.  Have you tried taking out the soundcard, to see what happens?  If it's integrated into the motherboard, I'm guessing you might be able to disable it (temporarily) in BIOS.  It's just a question of elimination, really.


My broads nForce 2, and the integrated card is disabled, I'm currently using audigy 2.
Title: Re: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 11, 2005, 19:22
Quote from: "welshy."
the debug info consists mainly of errors with ati3duag and ***** Kernel symbols are WRONG


Are you saying that the info is wrong or that the info says that the ati3duag part is wrong ?

Thats a .DLL file for an ATI graphics card.

You could try reinstalling or updating your gfx drivers or replace the ati3duag.dll with this one from here :

http://www.dlldump.com/download-dll-files_new.php/dllfiles/A/ati3duag.dll/6.14.10.0231/download.html

Maybe its missing or has been corrupted somehow ?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 19:26
What I posted was some brief information from a Debug, after the crash.

Quote
***** Kernel symbols are WRONG. Please fix symbols to do analysis.

Unable to load image ati3duag.dll, Win32 error 2
*** WARNING: Unable to verify timestamp for ati3duag.dll
*** ERROR: Module load completed but symbols could not be loaded for ati3duag.dll
Probably caused by : ati3duag.dll ( ati3duag+938d6 )
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 11, 2005, 19:29
Ok, I would download that DLL and replace your current one then and see how that goes  :)
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 19:44
That dll is "Version: 6.14.10.0231" any idea if if its compatible with all the ati driver sets? because the ones I'm trying at the moment ain't up to date.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 11, 2005, 19:46
No idea sorry  :(

Copy and save the original in case its worse with the one I gave you a link to.

Have you tried getting the latest drivers from the ATI site ?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 19:46
Also is there any diagnostic tools out there apart from memory tests I can run?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 19:49
Quote from: "Sandra"
No idea sorry  :(

Copy and save the original in case its worse with the one I gave you a link to.

Have you tried getting the latest drivers from the ATI site ?


Yer that didn't resolve the problem, Im not so worried about the BOSD's though, more the hard crashes ones.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 11, 2005, 19:52
Quote from: "welshy."
Also is there any diagnostic tools out there apart from memory tests I can run?


I use a program called PC-Check that runs from a bootable floppy. There are newer ones that run from a bootable inage on a CD.
Usually the have only found memory faults for me though  :(

Have you looked in the event viewer for error messages in the log ?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 19:55
Quote
Have you looked in the event viewer for error messages in the log ?


What do you mean?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 11, 2005, 20:00
If you go into Control Panel/Admin Tools/Event Viewer  then it has logs for Applications and System.

Looking in there for the time it last crashed often gives more information as to what caused it.
There are usually lots of red Xs but not all are that troublesome but look for any that are around the time it last crashed or frequently repeated.

If you double click on the error it should give an event ID number which we can possibly track down your fault with  :)
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 21:53
I can't see no admin tools in CP :o
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Simon on September 11, 2005, 22:36
Another way to find it is by right clicking your My Computer icon on your Desktop, select Manage, then Event Viewer.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 22:55
Yup theres alot of reds in there overall, so what do you me to post of it?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 23:00
Ahh ok, I found the Minidump from my last crash, and got the time and date of that, when i looked at the correspsonding errors It reads this..

Event Type:   Error
Event Source:   Service Control Manager
Event Category:   None
Event ID:   7023
Date:      10/09/2005
Time:      18:17:50
User:      N/A
Computer:   DEAN-NJNRQV62J1
Description:
The IPSEC Services service terminated with the following error:
The authentication service is unknown.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 11, 2005, 23:03
Hmm also alot more with the same error, but I don't recall crashes when its happened on this log.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 12, 2005, 00:41
Are you networked or running a server ?
Sounds like the event ID 7023 is possibly caused by the firewall on XPs SP2, it was supposed to be fixed by an update.
Are you using XPs built in firewall ?

The IPSEC service is something to do with the firewall when networked apparently too  :?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 12, 2005, 00:59
Not networked, and no I'm using zonealarm, there many of these errors though, these can't make someone crash?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 12, 2005, 01:09
Are there any other Event ID error numbers happening around the time it crashes ?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 12, 2005, 01:30
At the time of the crash its only that.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 12, 2005, 02:01
How are you connected to the net ?
Is Wi Fi involved in some way ?
The error is something to do with IP addresses or the security of them in some way by the looks of it  :?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 12, 2005, 03:36
These can't be linked to the crashes though ? And if its a security issue with my IP should i contact my ISP?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 12, 2005, 11:51
No, its a perceived by XP security issue I think. It may be a false alarm.
We recently had someone with too many connection attempts that was freezing her pc as she had a wi fi enabled connection that wasnt being used.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 12, 2005, 15:50
How do I check if Wi Fi is on?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 12, 2005, 18:03
Do you have a Wi Fi enabled device in your pc ?
How do you connect to the internet ?
Look in your Device Manager and see if you have anything saying Wi Fi.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 12, 2005, 20:15
I connect via Ethernet direct from the modem, no networking involved.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 12, 2005, 21:36
And you dont have a wi fi adaptor built into your pc at all, either onboard, pci or via a pmcia card ?
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 13, 2005, 00:32
Nope.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: Sandra on September 13, 2005, 00:45
I am as confused as your pc is then as that event ID is pointing us towards something you havent got  :?

You could look in the services part of Computer Management and set the IPSEC Services to manually start then that may stop those error messages.
But I cant understand how youre getting them if youre not using XPs firewall or networked  :?
If it stops anything working after setting it to manual then reset it to auto again.
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 13, 2005, 22:52
Them errors, don't seem to be effecting my pc it seems, as i've had A few recently, and ironicaly since I started this thread no crashes :o
Title: PC Crashes.
Post by: welshy. on September 22, 2005, 18:56
Nooooo crashes are back. This is from  the analyze in the minidump.


IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (a)
An attempt was made to access a pageable (or completely invalid) address at an
interrupt request level (IRQL) that is too high.  This is usually
caused by drivers using improper addresses.
If a kernel debugger is available get the stack backtrace.
Arguments:
Arg1: 084d769c, memory referenced
Arg2: 00000002, IRQL
Arg3: 00000000, value 0 = read operation, 1 = write operation
Arg4: 804dc0ff, address which referenced memory

There was nothing in the event viewer at the time for the crash, that I can see anyway.