PC Pals Forum
Technical Help & Discussion => Self Building, Upgrading & General Hardware Help => Topic started by: mistybear on November 25, 2006, 10:32
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I have been looking at upgrading Michael's computer.
http://217.110.237.67/Manuals/Medion%208383XL%20mit%20MS-7091.pdf
I have already installed 2x1GB Kingston RAM, took out the 2x256MB and put them in mine.
I'm thinking of getting him a Inno3D 7950GT GFX-Card. http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/392/
And I think it will need a bigger PSU, was thinking of an Antec 550W.
http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=23550
But then I saw this PSU for GFX-Cards, and wondered if this is all I need, does anyone know anything about these.
http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Power/PurePower/w0099/w0099.asp
We both need a better cooling system, I was thinking of Arctic Freezer Pro7.
I welcome any advice and or suggestions, especially if it saves me money. ;D
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I'm a bit out of touch with the latest stuff, but personally, I would have thought a 550W PSU would suffice, without the need for a separate power supply for the GFX card. Others may disagree though, so don't just take my word for it.
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Either power supply option should work fine MB, what prices are they ?
Have you got a spare 5.25 bay in Michaels pc to take the GFX card psu ?
Dont forget that it doesnt matter how much air you move around inside the case if it cant get cooler fresh air in and the old hot air out.
Medion cases tend to be small and compact but if you can put extra case fans in that may have more benefit than changing the CPU fan.
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I'm not sure how these GFX-Card PSU work, but I thought that if all he needs is more power for graphics that this maybe a better (?) solution. It's $85.
I'm not sure about the spare bay, when you slide the front panel down, there is a spot below the front connections.
http://www.pcparts.net.au/thermaltake-purepower-power-express-250w-power-supply-psu-c-46-pr-541.html
550W Antec TruePower Trio Power Supply $165 -
But I thought maybe a bigger PSU with a good fan, might be a better option?
At least the GFX-Card has its own fan.
As you can tell I'm having trouble deciding as to what is best, I really don't know anything about what requirements are needed.
With it heating up here I suggested to Michael that if he puts his computer on the desk, (if he can find room) take out the case screws and just slid the side off if it starts to over heat. Then simply slid it back on when he has turned it off.
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The extra power supply is the cheaper and possibly the better option MB, providing that there is a slot for it to fit in.
Its the same size one as the CD and DVD use, not the smaller one that the floppy drive uses that you need to have spare.
Most recent pcs have at least a 300 watt PSU so with the additional one that would make yours the same total power available as the Antec would supply, but the 7950GT wouldnt need the full 250 watts available from the seperate one.
The new 8000s series can take up to 140 watt, according to a review I read last night.
So if the current PSU is already running everything on Michaels PC ok at the moment, including the current GFX card then the addition of the extra GFX card PSU is going to relieve the demand on the original PSU.
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I received the GFX-Card and PSU today. Installed the PSU without too much trouble, apart from way too many spare cables. ???
The GFX-Card was a different problem. As soon as I open the box I noticed that the cardboard that the card sits on had a small amount of damage, like it had been opened a few times. But when I took the card out, the backing plate, that houses the outputs, was bent and scratched. And on the top of the fan assembly it has a sticker saying "remove protective film before using", well what protective film! Plus there were scrape marks on that part of it as well. Not happy. >:(
I emailed them saying that I believed it wasn't a new card and that I wanted it replaced, I received a phone call from them an hour or so later.
It's not the lying about them saying that they get these new from their supplier that annoys me, or the fact that a friend of mine has gone out of his way already to pick this up and bring it up to us, (I don't like the thought of something as expensive and breakable as this in the mail) now he has to take it back and get another one. It's the fact that they tried to get away with selling an obviously used card and they won't suffer any consequences for their blatant deception.
Has anyone purchased a new card, as I'm curious as to how the packing should look, should the whole box be vacuum sealed as the PSU was, or the card itself, should it be sealed in plastic, as this one wasn't.
He tried to tell me that the little round sticker that holds down the opening flaps of the box means that it is sealed. I managed to open it and then repack everything and seal it back, and you probably couldn't tell it had been open.
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Thats not good MB.
They always come in an anti static bag, not necessarily sealed but yours does appear to have been at least removed from the box and handled roughly even if its not actually been used in a pc.
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I don't understand how else it could have been bent so much, I'm assuming the metal plate is fairly strong and that it would take some force to bend it back that much.
When the replacement is picked up, he is going to ask for them to open it and show him the card. Which is embarrassing and shouldn't be necessary. Mind you I give them credit for phoning me so quickly after I emailed them.
Now that I have another week before I have to try to install it, I thought I should probably find out how to do that. :blush:
http://www.inno3d.com/products/graphic_card/gf7_pcie/7950gt.htm
I have the feeling that it's not as easy as taking one out and putting the other one in. ???
The power supply connection are different, the new PSU has two connections marked PCI, so I'm assuming I use one of those, yes?
The old card has connections from the card to some sort of board attached to the back of the case, sorry I don't know what it is.
But I didn't see the same on the new card.
I have been looking for a manual for the new card, can't find one. Or any sort manual or instructions on how to install different cards.
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I have the feeling that it's not as easy as taking one out and putting the other one in. ???
The power supply connection are different, the new PSU has two connections marked PCI, so I'm assuming I use one of those, yes?
The old card has connections from the card to some sort of board attached to the back of the case, sorry I don't know what it is.
But I didn't see the same on the new card.
I have been looking for a manual for the new card, can't find one. Or any sort manual or instructions on how to install different cards.
When you are ready to replace the card MB, then go into the Device manager and uninstall the original graphics card from in there by right clicking and selcting Unistall.
Then shut down the pc.
Disconnect the monitor cable from the card and then remove the original card by removing the screw on the bracket and unclipping the plastic retaining clip at the opposite end of the card and just pull it upwards out of the slot.
Fit the new card in, fasten the screw in place and clip the plastic clip over the lug and reconnect the monitor cable.
Plug one of the PCI-e power connectors to the card, the other one is for if you have dual SLI cards.
I can only think that the connection from the original card to the board at the back of the case is a scart connection for TV out but it may be a different type down under, anyway it wont be necessary for what Michaels been using the pc for :)
Switch the pc back on and it should detect your new card and install XPs own drivers or if it cant find them then it will ask you for the location, stick the cd in and tell it to install from there.
There may be extra utilities and software on the cd that comes with the card so even if XP installs the card without using the cd then run the cd and see if theres something that you want installing.
Let me know if you dont understand anything I have said.
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Thanks Sandra, that makes perfect sense.
It was suggested to me that with the parts that have been replaced, I could put them towards building a PC for the friend who has been helping me gather all these bits a pieces. He has an old computer, not sure what it is, but it runs windows 95'. It's a thought, or Michael suggested that I run dual cards in mine. Not really needed.
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If it does what you need and youre hapy with how it does it then theres no point upgrading.
If you dont upgrade this year then you can upgrade next year for the same price as it would cost you now but youd get an even better pc.
The longer you go between upgrades/replacements then the better pc you get for the same price as the entry level, mid range and high spec pcs always cost around the same price, they just get faster and better every few months :)
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Just an update on the replacement GFX-Card, it was picked up on monday, they took it out in front of my friend, it was bent so they just bent it back into place and reassured him that it was brand new. Yeah right.
Packaging was the same, no anti-static bag.
I posted this on an Australian forum and there are guys who work in retail PC components, and they assured me that these cards weren't new and I should demand a new one. I already did that, didn't work.
So I emailed them saying that they apparently haven't any brand new factory sealed cards so I requested a full refund.
Here's their response.
"Thank you for your feedback, this unit is brand new and with manufacturing seal.
However, if you are not happy with the unit, please send it back, we will refund your money.
Just to let you know, the supplier we sourced this unit was the sole distributor for this brand in Australia, therefore, the new unit which you are expecting "with NEW Condition" from other retailers will be exactly the same condition as you buy from us."
So it seems all Inno3D 7950GT 512MB cards sold in Australia are used or refurbished.
The other forum gave me the distributors link so I may contact them and ask about the condition of the cards they supply, actually I might forward all the emails I've had with these rip off merchants.
I have order another one from another company, and it was embarrassing to ask if they have brand new factory sealed cards. If they have similar cards I think I will contact the dept. of fair trading, probably should do it anyway. Shame I don't have a digital camera, I could have taken some shots of it.
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Finally got a graphics card (XFX 7950GT 512mb) and installed it this morning. There was a couple of minor embarrassments which I won't go into, I should never be expected to do anything more complicated than make tea first thing in the morning. It actually was a lot easier than putting the Arctic Freezer Pro 7 in, (5 minute job, be b***ered.)
So he now has 2Gb RAM, 550W PSU, Arctic Freezer Pro 7, XFX 7950GT, Logitech G15 KB, Logitech Mx 518 mouse. Plus 10 new games.
He's a happy kid. ;D
But there is still an overheating problem, someone suggested a Thermaltake slot fan, which looks good for taking out the hot air, but what can I use for getting air into the case.
http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Cooler/TMG/A2414/A2414.asp#feature
Michael would like a bigger case, (I would like a bigger house) ;D
There is one free slot below the GFX-Card, then there is the TV-Card which I will remove. (never gets used)
The old graphics card had an out put to a small board attached to the back of the case which has a scart, composite and S-Video outputs to it. Can I remove that? as the holes it will leave will be useful for ventilation.
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Should be able to remove it if its not connected to anything now MB.
Well done on fitting the new card, Micahael called me on MSN this morning to say how pleased he was with it. :)
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Thanks Sandra, I'm pretty pleased myself. ;D
How do you fit a case fan to the side panel of the case? And how do you access the front bays, the 8383XL has a slide down section and behind that is the card readers and imputs and below that is a solid plastic bay. Do I have to remove that whole plastic section from the inside the case? Shame there isn't a manual for the whole computer, would make life a lot easier.
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But there is still an overheating problem, someone suggested a Thermaltake slot fan, which looks good for taking out the hot air, but what can I use for getting air into the case.
http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Cooler/TMG/A2414/A2414.asp#feature
I have something similar, not the expense make though, but it works well and keeps my room heated, I fitted mine almost ontop of my graphics card,and now my machine is soo cold - but my room is warm! :-)
I expect that a bigger case will help with the airflow, but just moving the cables around and tidy might do the trick anyway
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Yeah, I'd rather put it on top of the card put there isn't enough room, so it will have to go underneath it.
There isn't much room and it's difficult to find room to keep the cables out of the way.
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How do you fit a case fan to the side panel of the case? And how do you access the front bays, the 8383XL has a slide down section and behind that is the card readers and imputs and below that is a solid plastic bay. Do I have to remove that whole plastic section from the inside the case?
If there isnt a place for a fan on the side panel then you would have to at least drill some holes or better still cut a section out, just smaller than the size of the fan you intend to fit.
A large fan running slowly is quieter than a small fan running fast when moving the same volume of air.
The plastic cover usually just clips out and often theres a metal piece behind it that you have to twist to break the small bits that attach it to the case.
Thats best done from inside the case.
Sometimes they come out quite easily but some need a lot of twisting and bending, be careful that you dont cut yourself as the metal often has sharp edges.
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Thanks Sandra, there is a round section of holes on the side, about 10cms across. And a long line of holes about an inch or so from the bottom of the side case, about an inch wide and about 10 inches long.
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But there is still an overheating problem, someone suggested a Thermaltake slot fan, which looks good for taking out the hot air, but what can I use for getting air into the case.
http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Cooler/TMG/A2414/A2414.asp#feature
Michael would like a bigger case, (I would like a bigger house) ;D
There is one free slot below the GFX-Card, then there is the TV-Card which I will remove. (never gets used)
The old graphics card had an out put to a small board attached to the back of the case which has a scart, composite and S-Video outputs to it. Can I remove that? as the holes it will leave will be useful for ventilation.
I think if you put a fan round the 'other way', it will suck air in, creating a flow through, so you would need one either end of the case, one sucking and one blowing. :o :o:
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:lol: Michael and I have numerous discussions about sucking and blowing, I was talking about fans, not sure about Michael though. ;D
I'm not sure how to open up the spare drive bay at the front, the 8383XL has a panel that slides down to show the card readers and imputs and below that is the spare bay which is covered with a hard plastic panel.
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I'm not sure how to open up the spare drive bay at the front, the 8383XL has a panel that slides down to show the card readers and imputs and below that is the spare bay which is covered with a hard plastic panel.
Did you not read what I wrote earlier MB ?
The plastic cover usually just clips out and often theres a metal piece behind it that you have to twist to break the small bits that attach it to the case.
Thats best done from inside the case.
Sometimes they come out quite easily but some need a lot of twisting and bending, be careful that you dont cut yourself as the metal often has sharp edges.
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Sorry was a little tired last night I didn't understand what you meant, ok it makes sense.
So if I do that I was thinking a fan in there to draw air in and a slot fan at the back to suck it out.
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To be honest I am not sure how much difference fans blowing one way or other make.
If a PC case was airtight then there would be a good reason for having fans blowing filtered air in and more fans sucking it out and keeping the flow rate the same for in and out.
In a non airtight case then if all the fans sucked in then the air pressure would blow out though wherever it could.
Conversely if all the fans blew out then air would find its way in to try to equalise the air pressure.
The main thing is that as long as air is moving in and out of the case then things will run cooler than with no air movement.
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Last night Michaels GPU was 69c, so while he was in the shower I opened the drive bays and put the small desk fan close to the side vent holes and the temp dropped down to 54c in around 10 mins. So it definately needs a good fan or two.
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Solved the ventilation problem.
(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi70.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi84%2Fmistybear_2006%2Fopencomputer.jpg&hash=725fe16ef3341ec376ae92f99e6821ddbe21332b)
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Just shows what a determined woman can achieve. Congratulations for thinking out of the box MB.
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We are going away for a week so I had to put it all back, bit of a tight fit.
(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi70.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi84%2Fmistybear_2006%2Fcomputer_ueba_06.jpg&hash=f644c334a74cb1151ef5cd4d45591923375358b1)
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As long as it still works MB. It still has plenty of extra ventilation too!
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lol
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:pmsl:
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I got a call from Michael this afternoon, said his computer is shutting down when he is playing need for speed carbon and blitzkrieg 2. After some reading of similar topics on other forums I'm assuming it's the new graphics card, well hoping is more like it. It's preferable to the motherboard.
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probably just the overheating.
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Apparently it was a faulty power board connection. We are going up north tomorrow morning and we will be taking Michael's computer, but won't have the internet, it's purely for game playing. So I hope nothing goes wrong with it.
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ummm should be fine.... good luck!
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This is what happened last time we went away.
(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi70.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi84%2Fmistybear_2006%2FGamefreak-1.jpg&hash=f7ae1c1010d5fbe66ad1c3eb7514e40456c2ed20)
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lol
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Yes, that was the time you borrowed my Scenic. :)
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Michael's computer turned itself off again yesterday, and I think you're right Sam, it has to be the heat. It was around 33 degrees at the time, we need some seriously good fans, or air conditioning (just for the computer).
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W had a very hot (for us anyway) summer last year and my fan was whirring like crazy. It's comforting to know that the computer will shut down if there is a danger of overheating.
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And hopefully before any damage is done.
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It also can depend on what he is using the PC for at which time of day. If he's playing graphic intensive games, for example, this causes the PC to work harder, so it might be an idea to save these activities until the evening, or cooler parts of the day - if there are any.
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That's exactly it Simon, late afternoon, playing the new pc games. They usually lan of a night time which hasn't been a problem. I did suggest a bar fridge for his room, to put the computer in. ;D
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I've ordered the case, LINK (http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=15900#), his GFX card was at 80 celsius. Might have it this weekend, so any helpful advice or handy hints on how to transfer everything across, would be greatly appreciated.
Didn't really want to be doing this now, but hey, the distraction might be fun. :crazy:
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I hope that Michael has been doing some weight training if hes still going to be treating his PC like a laptop and taking it around to his mates all the time ::)
Remove all the PCI and GFX cards and disconnect all the wires from the mobo taking careful note of the cluster of wires at the botom end of the mobo that go to the front panel for the power and reset switches and any front USB and/or audio connectors, as the wires may be a little different on the new case.
Undo the screws fastening the mobo to the case and lift it away and carefully place the mobo where it cant be be damaged, I usually have the underneath part facing upwards so nothing can get shorted out ,in case theres any residual static hanging about.
Check the positioning of the small brass screw in inserts that are in the old case that the mobo fastened to.
Arrange the brass inserts in the new case in the same layout.
At the rear of the old case where the mouse and keyboard connect theres a rectangular plate that you need to remove by pushing it inwards, they can be quite tight.
These are motherboard specific and you will need this plate fitting in the new case to take your mobo.
Once you have fitted that plate to the new case and made sure that the brass inserts are all in the correct place, if they are already screwed into the case make sure that there arent too many as any extra could touch a part of the mobo and short it out, you may even have to use some of the brass inserts from your old case as some manufacturers dont supply enough.
When fitting the mobo to the new case you need to align it with the rectangular plate that you removed from the old case.
This can be a little awkward as there are springy metal clips that push againt the mobo as you place it in position.
It may be handy for you to be holding the mobo in the correct place and have Michael put a couple of screws in.
Dont fully tighten the screws until you have got them all in as sometimes you need a little movement.
Once they are all in tighten them but remember you are only using small screws and they are going into brass so you dont need the strength of a gorilla to tighten them :)
The rest is simply a case of refitting everything and connecting the wires, taking note of the front of case wires as they may be labelled a little differently to the old ones.
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Thanks Sandra, I might get some masking tape or little stickers and label the wiring.
I was going to get more fans, the optional ones, but a friend said that with all the extra fans this case has plus all the additional room, probably won't need any.
Michael mightn't be home much this weekend, but he has monday off. He could also take it into TAFE, a class project. ;) But I really want to have a play, and then if I stuff it up, he can take it into TAFE. ;D
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It is easy enough to do it by yourself MB, just sometimes the springy bits on the rectangular plate make it easier if theres a spare pair of hands available.
Yours probably wont be as springy as a new mobo one would be as its been under pressure in the old case for a few years already :)
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Everything is in, but having trouble with the front power and reset switches.
(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi70.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi84%2Fmistybear_2006%2FScreenshot.jpg&hash=d4f77be0b5ff4f5427c514a6abee6bac622be9ef)
With the old case there were only two connections ATX SW and POWER LED which went into the PS-ON and PWR_LED.
Now the new case has three connections PWR_SW, HDD_LED and RESET_SW.
Michael first put them into RESET, HDD_LED and PWR_LED no power?
So now he has moved the PWR_SW from PWR_LED to PS-ON, is this correct????
I'm a little nervous about blowing up the motherboard.
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Yes PWR_SW is the same as PS-ON.
Sorry that you have had to wait so long for a reply :(
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Thanks Sandra, it powered up ok, then turned off, had a suspicion that it was the CPU heat sink not seated properly. Michael took it out and re-seated it, and it has been running for last 5 minutes without a hiccup so he's taking to his room to connect everything else.
Not sure about the USB connections and video and audio, do you still have the 8383 motherboard manual, makes it easier than me trying to post bits out of it. :blush:
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Not sure about the USB connections and video and audio, do you still have the 8383 motherboard manual, makes it easier than me trying to post bits out of it. :blush:
I think I have it somewhere MB but unfortunately I dont have much time to look for it at the moment and I have to go out soon :(
It will be this evening by the time I get chance to look for it and read up on it.
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That's ok, everything else is working, it did turn off again when he took it to his room, it was the CPU again, it's very touchy. Michael will try and get some thermal paste tomorrow from TAFE as I'm sure it needs replacing with taking it off so many times.
The TV card and the other connections are going to be a challenge, I didn't really take much notice before we disconnected everything. :embarassed:
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Just had a quick look through the mobo manuals on my pc MB but theyre listed by mobo number not pc type.
Can you tell me the number of your MB then I can read through it when I get back home this evening.
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Thanks Sandra, no hurry.
MS 7091, the copy I have you sent me ages ago. ;)
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One other thing while I remember, the case comes with four fans, two hard drive cage fans, one rear fan and a big 25cm fan at the top. Problem is the power supply Antec Trio 550 (http://www.antec.com/pdf/manuals/TRIO_manual_en.pdf) has only two fan only connections. So we connected one of the hard drive cage fans, which is at the bottom of the case and has the hard drive in it, and the back fan, which is at the back and near the top of the case. It is also right next to the CPU's fan, so it's sucking out the heat from the CPU and should create a flow through. What does concern me that the PSU is at the base of the case and the fan is facing straight up towards the GFX Card.
We have been watching the temps since it's been running, hard drive started at 19C dropped to 17C so that's very well cooled, but the CPU is about 58C and the GFX card at 51C. I'm thinking of unplugging the hard drive fan which has the hard drive in it and plugging in the other hard drive fan which is higher up, and has nothing in it, actually it's in the middle, it would then blow air through to the GFX Card and closer to the CPU which is very close to the top of the case.
But what I really need to know is how can I connect all four fans when I only have two fan only connections from the PSU, do I need a separate fan controller such as one of these, http://www.i-tech.com.au/products/2568_THERMALTAKE_HARDCANO_13.aspx maybe not that one in particular, but along those lines.
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Oh, and Sandra and anyone else who thinks Australia is always warm and sunny......... it's 0.7C and snowing.
No wonder his hard drive is only 17C.
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The myth is shattered! :bawl:
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Reading the info from your link on the PSU :
Note: Do not connect more than two external fans to the ?Fan Only?
connectors.
So you will need to use the spare molex connectors, the 4 pin ones.
You can get various types of splitters and converters to be able to connect different things to them, see here :
http://www.solentcables.co.uk/acatalog/Internal.html
Look at the 4th one down to the 11th on that page for the various combinations possible.
These will be the cheapest options but the fans connected to them will run at full speed.
If you want to vary the speed of the fans for quietness then you will need a fan controller as you have mentioned, they usually have one power feed in and 3 or more out via regulators.
Cant find your mobo manual MB so I will have to download it again if I can find it.
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Yes, I see what you mean.
The fans do come with a three speed switch, so he can adjust them depending on what he's doing. So using the existing spare molex connectors is certainly a lot cheaper.
And hopefully the motherboard manual arrived. :)
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It has thanks MB, will have a read through it later.
MSI really mess their motherboard IDs up when they make a board for a specific manufacturer.
I spent ages last night looking for 7091 and couldnt find any mention on the MSI site.
I did have a link to a site which had all the numbers that were used on MSI customer mobos cross referenced with the actual MSI retail number but I cant find it now :(
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Sorry you wasted so much time Sandra. I know what you mean by the MSI site, I spent hours one night looking for it as well.
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Michael has connected all four fans, looks pretty impressive.
I do have one main concern, dust. All the ventilation is great, but it also allows lots of dust and cat fur in. Does anyone know if you can get filters for this case or whether it's possible to make them and if so, how. :dunno:
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I was looking for some thin paper type filter paper like they use in cooker hood extractors and ended up in a £1 store, last time I was in Oz you had similar stores called $2 ones.
I bought a pack of 15 dusters that were really thin and quite fine weaved that I have cut up and superglued to the inside of my case over all the fan intakes.
They look a little like the really fine fibreglass sheets that you get in some DIY car body repair kits.
This seems to have worked quite well, trapping the dust but not restricting the airflow.
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Great idea Sandra, thanks.
If I remember correctly, you suggested this to me once before, see I was paying attention, it's just that I forgot. :crazy:
If you use super glue to fix them in place, then how do you remove them, for replacement? ???
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It doesnt seem to stick that hard, in fact I struggled to get some pieces to stick.
You only need a small line of glue around the edge of the filter material and then its held in place when you fasten the fan over it.
If, when I come to need to change the filters, they are stuck hard it will only be to the case and not across the intake area so I cant see it being a problem even if some of the original is stuck to the case as I will simply re glue the new piece a little nearer or farther away than the orignal line I used.
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You haven't had the need to change them yet, even with all that dog hair :o
I suppose you could just vacuum the outside of the ventilation holes and that would suck any dust and cat hair caught by the filter. ;)
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Its not been used as often as I was hoping it to be at the moment.
Need to have the time and inclination to set it back up as a server then it will be on 24/7.
I did have it on for 4 days continously a couple of weeks back as I was downloading season 3 of LOST.
As I have 5 case fans, 5 x 92mm and one by 120mm I have them all set on low speed so they dont seem to be getting clogged up yet and the inside of my case looks dust free :)
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Thought I should just keep adding to this thread as it's all about Michael's computer.
He is still having over heating problems. The new case has been great for everything else, but the cpu.
He removed the fan and heat sink, cleaned and reapplied thermal paste.
I did some reading on the other forum about 8383's, it seems that it isn't that unusual that they shut down when they over heat.
So with that in mind and the fact that a few people have told Michael that these cpu's are susceptible to over heating. What else can we do to keep the damn thing cooler or would it be best to get another cpu, and if so what would be best.
Also would a new mobo be a good idea as well?
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The best bang for buck CPU for an Intel socket 775 mobo is the D945 3.4ghz dual core CPU.
Not sure if it runs any cooler than the current one though.
I had a quick chat with Michael on messenger last night and if its not actually shutting down then I wouldnt worry too much about the temperature reading, I am never sure just how accurate these are as its not got an actual temperature probe on the CPU but takes its readings from the bios information.
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Oh, okay he didn't say anything to me.
He was over at a friends whose house is a lot warmer than ours, he phoned me and I was in the middle of a good old fashion session of balling my eyes out.
Not a lot I could do about it, he was about 40k's away and I needed to get to the tissue box.
And as you say if it's not actually shutting down.................
I know I read some where about fans that continue to run for about 5 mins after you shut the pc off, do you know anything about them?
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Thats usually the PSU fan on the higher spec'd units that do that.
Not sure if the one you have does it or not.
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Is this HDD any good, as the price is quite good and Michael needs another one?
LINK (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/SEAGATE-320GB-HDD-HARD-DISK-DRIVE-SATA-2-16MB-PICKUP-OK_W0QQitemZ190132267261QQihZ009QQcategoryZ130870QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
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Theye ok MB.
Yours and Michaels PC will only run at Sata 1 speed but that will run ok in your pcs.
Doesnt look particularly cheap though compared to UK prices, more like an average price maybe even a little higher as I recently bought a 500 gig Sata 11 drive for just under £70 including delivery.
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For future upgrades would a Sata 11 be better as I didn't realise the price difference. Future upgrades means that Michael wants to get a new MB and CPU, which I'm sure he will buy himself.
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If you think you can use a SATA 2 at a later date then if theres little or no difference in the price then you may as well go for one.
Theres no disadvantage in running a SATA 2 in a SATA 1 pc.
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There is a quite a difference in price which is why I was wondering, I can get a WD 500Gb for $169, but a Seagate 500Gb Sata 11 is $209.
Actually we have found cheaper, but the discussion is still going on, this could take a while.
I wanted to get him a 500Gb for all his games.
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What does Sata 300 mean, is that 1 or 11?
http://www.itestate.com.au/category.asp?ctgcod=C10003062600131
This Western Digital site is quite good...........still don't understand the Sata 150 and Sata 300. Interface?
http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/ProductMatrix.asp
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SATA 1 is 150 mhz whereas SATA 11 is 300 mhz.
The data transfer rate is faster on the SATA 11 than on SATA 1 but only on a SATA 11 supporting motherboard.
I prefer Western Digital to Seagate but Seagare are usually good drives, others will say that they prefer Seagate no doubt.
I suppose it depends which they have seen fail more than another make which makes people prefer one to another.
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Thanks Sandra, now I understand.
I would prefer to get a Western Digital, once Michael has it he will be installing Vista. If I have enough money I may get a smaller drive and do the same, so your services maybe called upon once again. ;)
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We decided on a 500GB Western Digital, http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=301
didn't realise that you had to also buy a cable to attach it to the MB, and I didn't realise that they have different connection for the power supply. The drive that is already installed has I think a four large pin connection, but this new drive has a different connection.
Here's a photo of the connections, the left hand side. How do we connect it to the PSU? :dunno:
(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi70.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi84%2Fmistybear_2006%2FwdfDesktop_SE16_AAKS1.jpg&hash=9f1a69edc8121e250dd940eb39547158a92fa503)
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You can get Molex (the usual 4 pin) to SATA adapters very cheaply but I would be surprised if the new PSU you bought recently didnt already have a SATA power lead.
They are quite thin black connectors about an inch wide.
The Data transfer leads are quite cheap and should be easily available in any pc store.
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Thanks Sandra, we did see
They are quite thin black connectors about an inch wide
something to that effect, but was unsure if that was what it was used for, not a lot of information in the PSU manual. I expect that they believe people who buy these things also know what they are doing. :blush:
I really wish that these sorts of devices would come with connection cables, or at least the computer store where you buy the drive from, let you know that they come without cables.
The drive is in his computer but obviously not connected, not a happy boy.
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When you buy a new motherboard the data transfer cables for the floppy, IDE drives and Sata drives usually come included.
Unfortunately when you buy a ready made pc they often leave the SATA cables out.
You will notice that on both the Data and the Power connectors that theres a small L shape at one end MB, that has to line up with the L shape in the drive and for the Data cable at the motherboard end as well.
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Okay, thanks Sandra, Michael is getting a Data cable from a friend, so hopefully tommorrow night we can hook it up. :)
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Now that the new drive is in, how can he transfer everything from his 250GB across to the new 500GB, as he wants to reformat or whatever it is, and do a clean install of Vista on the old 250GB and use it as a Media Centre.
Also how does he do a dual boot? :dunno:
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Sorry MB, I still havent had time to write the dual booting procedure down for you :(
First of all he needs to partition his new drive so that he has room to transfer whatever he wants from his current drive to the new one.
No point transferring the windows folder and contents as that wont work although he may want to save his emails.
No point copying installed programs either as they wil lneed reinstalling.
So he wants his documents, pictures, videos and music etc.
I assume that he has it showing in Disk Management now as an uninitiated drive ?
If so he needs to create and format a partion for his OS, I would suggest 40 gig for XP or 60 gig for Vista.
Then he needs to create and format another partition in the remaining unallocated space on that drive.
This is the partition that he should save his stuff from his original drive to, I usually make a folder on it called Old PC or similar as invariably there is stuff that he will want to delete later as we all save far too much.
He now has to decide whether he is using his 250 gig or the 500 gig as the XP drive.
He needs to install XP on one of the drives as the first OS, then Vista on the second one.
Assuming he is using the 250 gig drive for XP then its safer to disconnect the data cable from the 500 gig drive so he doesnt accidentally format it and lose the saved data.
Ideally he should be using a basic PS2 keyboard so that all the keys work without the OS being installed, USB ones can sometimes not allow the keys to work when installing.
Set the bios to boot from the CD/DVD as first device.
Restart with the XP CD in a drive and when it asks you to press any key to boot from the CD press any key :)
Follow the on screen instructions etc and when it comes to the part where it asks where you want to install to there is an option for deleting a partition.
Select this option "D" and press enter then to confirm I think it asks you to press "L" and then press enter.
I assume that you will have 2 partitions on that drive of around 120 gig each showing as 120000mb plus another one showing as 8mb.
Delete all the partition except the 8mb one by repeating the same procedure.
Tnen it should show as the full size of the drive but with no drive letter.
Then press "C" to create a partition.
In the next window it will show a box with the maximum size of partition that you can have, clear the numbers and for XP enter 40000mb that will give you just under 40 gig.
Select the format NTFS Quick option and when its done select C as the partition to install windows on.
Ignore the other partition for now and follow on installing XP by entering the information when asked.
It will reboot a couple of times as its installing but do not press a key when you see the Press any key to boot from CD message as it reboots or you will go round in a loop.
Once windows has installed properly then go into Admin Tools/Computer Management/Disk Management and you can click on the unallocated partition and create a new primary partition of the maximum size it allows, ie dont need to change the numbers in the box and again select the Format NTFS Quick option.
Shut the pc down and connect the second drive data cable again.
Have the Vista DVD in the DVD drive and follow the instructions I sent you before and at the part where it asks you where to install it make sure that you highlight the 60 gig partition of the 500 gig drive.
It will want to format it again just select the NTFS Quick option.
The rest of the installation is as I explained to you before.
Once its finished installing remove the Vista DVD and restart the pc and go into the bios and select the XP hard drive as the first bootable device.
When you restart it should ask you which OS you want to boot into so just select which one and press enter.
Hopefully thats all there is to it :)
Thats the traditional way to dual boot by having the earlier OS installed first then installing the later OS afterwards as the later one understands the older one whereas the older one may not understand the newer one.
I still think that the best way to multi boot a pc with 2 or more SATA drives is to just thave a single drive connected and install one OS to that.
Then disconnect that drive and connect the second one and install the other OS to that one.
Then connect both drives and its done.
It doesnt matter which way round you do them and you have no risk of installing to the wrong drive or partition and thereby losing saved data.
There is no problem removing either drive at a later date as each OS is totally independant of the other drive or OS.
You just use F8 when starting the PC to tell it which drive to boot from.
This wasnt as easy to do with IDE drives as you had to enter the bios each time but with SATA drives F8 gives you a simple option of boot devices.
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Wow, Michael is going to have fun doing that. ;)
It will have to be a time when we both have are able to do it.
The only thing I'm clear on is that the old 250GB is going to be his Media Centre running Vista.
The new 500GB will run XP and all his games, which are all on his 250GB.
Can he transfer all of his media and all of his games that he currently has on the 250Gb over to the 500GB, then once he has formatted the 250GB and installed Vista, can he transfer his games back from the 500GB to the 250GB.
I assume he will have to install XP on the 500GB before he starts this process.
If I'm asking silly questions that you have already explained, I'm sorry, my brain is a little fuzzy, spent the whole day writing stuff for the tribunal. :crazy: :brickwall:
Okay, forget all that, he has explained, and I actually got one thing right..... ;D He first has to install XP on the new 500GB, transfer all his media to it. But the games will have to be reinstalled from scratch to the 500GB as they can't be transfered because of the registry files.
He also let me know he had spoken with you, you can spend the whole day in the house together, but can't seem to get the time to talk. I'll be glad when this tribunal stuff is over. :(
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Its OK MB, in case you have now confused anyone following this thread I should expalin that I was in touch with Michael last night on messenger, after I posted the info :)
He wants XP on the new 500 gig drive and Vista on the old 250 gig drive so I explained that he just needs to change the drives over from what I had written and the respective sizes for the boot partition of each.
He thinks hes going to be ok now but of course if he gets stuck he can post on here using MBs pc or if I am online on messenger he can cotact me on there but I am sure if he takes it step by step he will be ok.
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I discovered something quite surprising tonight. Michael was reading the specs of the Medion 8383XL off the box tonight as he wondered what RAM it had. I said DDR2, he said "no" it's DDR1, which I thought was wrong as I had purchased RAM for his old PC and it was DDR2.
I had a look at the motherboard manual and it is indeed DDR1, oops! :blush: Which is probably why when I put his DDR2 2x1GB Kingston RAM that I purchased, in this, the other RAM died.
But why did his DDR1 cope okay with the DDR2 installed along side, and mine didn't? :dunno:
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DDR 1 wont fit in DDR 2 slots and vice versa.
Some mobos had both types side by side but you can only run with one or the other not a mixture of both types.
If I understand you correctly then it shouldnt have run at all with 2 different types of ram in at the same time :dunno:
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It has been so long since I bought that RAM, and after buying the 2x2GB DDR2 earlier this year, for the new motherboard and CPU, I just assumed that it was DDR2. Michael says that it's DDR1 and I'm just a crazy old.......... No he didn't quite go that far, as he's still breathing.
So lets just pretend I haven't posted anything silly and I'll just shut up now and stay away from anything technical. :blush: :crazy:
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Hey, how did we all while away our time, before we all got the PC bug?
And you stick in there Misty, because the best bit about screwing up, is you usually come out the other side knowing more than you did previously.
How long have you had that Medion, and what was the original spec on it?
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I have a fair idea what I used to do Tony. Put it this way, the lawn needs mowing, the house needs vacuuming and I've haven't been on a bush walk for over a year. Well the not going for a bush walk has more to do with something else.
I think we bought Michael's Medion 8383 in 2004. The only thing left of it is the HardDrive, as it has the original OS on it but everything else has been replaced. I have one as well, not sure when I bought mine, it's an ex demo, possibly 2 years ago maybe. :dunno:
This is what it had originally, I now have the 2x1GB Kingston RAM I bought for Michael's.
Intel Pentium 4 3.0
Western Digital 250GB HD with *mb Cache 7200pm.
Pioneer 16x Duel Layer Multi Formated DVD/CD Writer
16x DVD-ROM
512MB Memory DDR 400MHz 64bit duel channel memory (one bank free for upgrading
USB 2.0 6XUSB 2.0
GeForce 6610 XL Graphics Card 128MB DDR3 Memory at 800MHz PCI-Express x 16 bus architecture.
Stereo TV Card FM Card
Wireless network access WLAN 54Mbit IEEE 802.11b compatible
Medion 10/100 Mbit Fast Ethernet
One thing that it does have that Michael needs is Bluetooth. Michael's new phone has Bluetooth and the only way he can access it is through this computer. I hadn't used it, didn't even knew whether it worked or not. Well it does.
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Bluetooth,
yes very handy for transferring images and music and stuff to mobile phones. My PC ain't got bluetooth, but I bought a Medion Bluetooth dongle from Aldi a couple of year back. I was in Turkey on holiday at the time, but my Son was over from Kaz, and he queued up at Aldi for their Laptop offering. So I got him to get me a bluetooth dongle that they also had on offer. They seem to do themes on their offer days, it could be mechanics tackle on week, fishing the next and so on.
Now funny thing, is I just spoke to him on the phone, he has just landed at Schipol [Amsterdam] airport, then he connects to a UK flight this afternoon. He is after one of those smaller laptops, as he is on a course in London in December. He says he does not like his Medion laptop, he just does not like Vista, and says the laptop it's self is just to bulky. I said that's OK, your Mum wants a laptop, so he will bring it over next time he is here. So that will be her parked up in the living room playing solo card games, and me and the grandson playing COD 4 and World at War on our respective desktops in the office Bunker ;D