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Technical Help & Discussion => Apple, Linux & Open Source Software: Help, News & Discussion => Topic started by: Simon on August 18, 2008, 14:12

Title: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 18, 2008, 14:12
My new toy arrived today, and I'm still finding my way round it, but have come up against my first problem, and that is, I can't get a wireless network connection established.  I select the network from the list, put in the WPA key, and after a while, it just goes to 'Pending' and the log says No DHCP Offered.  My laptop connects OK to my router, so I don't know what's going wrong. 
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 18, 2008, 14:46

hmm, firstly are you using the expert or normal user mode? i.e. do you have what looks like a desktop?

I'll have a think to what else could be going wrong but I'm bouncing around today with a visitor over from India.. its all a bit stressful
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 18, 2008, 14:57
Don't worry, Sam, it's not urgent, just a bit frustrating.  I have some sort of desktop, but it's not like a Windows desktop.  It's just got several large icons for Web Mail, Web, iGoogle, etc, with some Tabs at the top for Internet, Work, Learn, Play, Settings, etc.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 18, 2008, 14:59
One thing I noticed is when I put the key in for the WPA, it comes up as ASCII, but the key on the router, and the laptop is TKIP.  Not sure if this makes any difference, but it won't connect with no security either.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 18, 2008, 15:34
ok, if I was you I'd get it to run in "expert" mode, the desktop it has by default it the sort of click and happen kid desktop and not a proper one, like you would expect.  In the normal mode you should be able to go:  Settings > Personalization > Login Mode then tick mark the radio entry for Full desktop mode.  I think, it's been a while.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 18, 2008, 15:41
the Personalization screen only gives me user name and password options, plus Desktop Theme, Keyboard Layout, and log in automatically option.  :(
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 18, 2008, 15:53
I'll boot mine up later.... you might need todo something the first time.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 18, 2008, 15:56
oh and a good place for a whole stack of info is: http://wiki.eeeuser.com/
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 18, 2008, 15:56
OK, I'll be off in a minute anyway, got other stuff to be doing.  :)

Oh, thanks for the link, will check it out.  :)
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 19, 2008, 15:38
managed to get anywhere with it?
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 19, 2008, 17:50
No, been too busy today, and haven't bothered with it.  I'm now thinking of installing XP on it, as that's the only way I can think of to get it to work.  There seems to be no help on the various forums I've looked at, other than confirming that there's a problem with wi-fi on it, but no suggestions of a fix.  I may even just return it as faulty, as technically, if it doesn't do what it says on the tin, it is.  I shouldn't really have to spend hours researching and fiddling about with it, when it should work out of the box, should I?
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Camstop on August 19, 2008, 18:46
I'm sure you have to use the lower security option to connect the wifi if i remember rightly.

I've got XP on mine and it runs well though i upgraded the ram to 2GB and i got a veho 8GB SDHC card from ebuyer to expand on the on-board 4GB

The internet connection is very good and i recently used mine on the wifi in a hotel i was staying at without any problem.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 19, 2008, 20:31
I have wifi working on it fine though - I'll dig it out properly and have a look at what you are seeing, though seriously get into the desktop mode its much better. I'd avoid install XP if you can... the benefit of the linux OS far outways the convenience of using something you know.

Oh and Cam, where did you get your ram from? I was thinking about doing this but I've never bothered changing (or adding) the ram in a laptop before.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Camstop on August 19, 2008, 22:40
Oh and Cam, where did you get your ram from? I was thinking about doing this but I've never bothered changing (or adding) the ram in a laptop before.

They seem to have them posted on hot deals every so often and i'm sure it cost around £21-£23 delivered.

This is all i can see on there now and when you go to the link the price has gone up a bit.

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/227619/kingston-valueram-memory-2gb-667mhz/showthread.php?t=227619&page=2 (http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/227619/kingston-valueram-memory-2gb-667mhz/showthread.php?t=227619&page=2)

Still isn't bad though.

Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 20, 2008, 01:24
I have wifi working on it fine though - I'll dig it out properly and have a look at what you are seeing, though seriously get into the desktop mode its much better. I'd avoid install XP if you can... the benefit of the linux OS far outways the convenience of using something you know.

To be honest, Sam, Linux is far more alien to me than I ever thought it would be, and it doesn't seem as though you can do anything without knowing some sort of complex command prompt.  It really makes you realise how easy Windows is, in comparison.  I honestly can't be arsed to learn, what is essentially, a new language (still haven't managed to find this 'Advanced Desktop' mode), and I just wanted it to work out of the box like it's supposed to.  I've been reading the eeeforums, and there's loads of suggested solutions, but none of them seem to have been proven to work permanently, and a lot of them are technically over my head anyway.

If I use a low encryption key, then that will compromise the security of my other laptop, won't it?  As far as I know, you can't have different keys for different devices on the network, unless I'm mistaken.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Camstop on August 20, 2008, 08:59
If I use a low encryption key, then that will compromise the security of my other laptop, won't it?  As far as I know, you can't have different keys for different devices on the network, unless I'm mistaken.

My router is set on WPA-PSK and it all works ok but on saying that i do remember struggling to get it to connect at the start and maybe i had it on lower security until i installed XP  :dunno:

I'd also switch to XP unless you have the time and inclination to faff about with various linux stuff  :yawn:  :devil:

 
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 20, 2008, 10:17
I did actually make a small step last night, by using a static IP rather than DHCP.  It seemed to connect to the router, but then gave the message 'link is down'.  Trouble is, it was asking for DNS settings, and I haven't a clue what these would be.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Rik on August 20, 2008, 10:18
If I use a low encryption key, then that will compromise the security of my other laptop, won't it?  As far as I know, you can't have different keys for different devices on the network, unless I'm mistaken.

Yes and no...
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 20, 2008, 10:40
Thanks for the clarification!  ;D
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 20, 2008, 18:07
My router is set on WPA-PSK and it all works ok but on saying that i do remember struggling to get it to connect at the start and maybe i had it on lower security until i installed XP  :dunno:

I'd also switch to XP unless you have the time and inclination to faff about with various linux stuff  :yawn:  :devil:

 


lower security with linux, you are having a laugh right??  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 20, 2008, 18:08
I did actually make a small step last night, by using a static IP rather than DHCP.  It seemed to connect to the router, but then gave the message 'link is down'.  Trouble is, it was asking for DNS settings, and I haven't a clue what these would be.

The DNS settings should be rather simple to get hold of off your router... I still haven't had chance to play with my laptop on this - things are bit hectic with my visitor - I'll take a look first thing tomorrow.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 20, 2008, 18:16
To be honest, Sam, Linux is far more alien to me than I ever thought it would be, and it doesn't seem as though you can do anything without knowing some sort of complex command prompt. 

Windows is not easy, you just know it. Linux is far easier if you didn't know windows first.

The problem is you have, out of the box a pretty poor version of Linux (ubuntu is much much better). Once you have the advanced desktop mode working it will be a lot better, you will even have a desktop. And a complex command prompt, come on Si - don't be scared by having to type something.  ;)

For the advanced desktop mode... see http://wiki.eeeuser.com/howto:introtofulldesktop - though I just realised that we need to get your network connection working first.

Ok on this - is you SSID visible? Does you SSID or passphrase have spaces in it? If so that is probably the issue and it is probably simplier if you could quickly change them.  Otherwise you might need to do something a bit harder: http://wiki.eeeuser.com/howto:wpawithspaces
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 20, 2008, 21:45
Believe it ir not, I'm typing this on the Eee PC!!  BUT, with no wireless security, so I'm off...
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 20, 2008, 23:00
Right, update:  It works with no security, and with WEP security, but not with WPA, which is what I use, and don't want to switch from, as it's better than WEP.  Soooo, if I can get online with WEP, just for the purpose, is there something I can download to fix the WPA issue?
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 21, 2008, 08:18
Oh excellent...

yep... see the above link I posted.

I use WEP, and so does lots of people I know - its pretty darn secure - especially since all you have to really worry about is your neighbours. Though, lets fix the issue with the WPA. First of all I suggest that you try and get into the advanced mode, you will prefer it.

Follow: http://wiki.eeeuser.com/howto:getkde - yes you need to use the terminal but copy what they do, its fairly straight forward- I can explain the steps further if you are at all worried about certain commands.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Camstop on August 21, 2008, 09:03
When you ditch the L for XP then i'm sure it will work in WPA.  ;)

Mine is and i don't remember doing anything else to get it to work.

I didn't put XP on till after i up'ed the ram to 2GB but it is "lightning bolt" with the 2GB of ram.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 21, 2008, 10:00
no you just had to install windows.

If Si, installed Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian... and the list of linux distros continues WPA would work out of the box... but its the version of Linux that comes with the eeePC that is at fault.  Not all Linux distributions are the same, and some are far more advanced than others... and all of these are far more advanced than Microsoft XP.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 21, 2008, 10:15
So, would it not be easier to install Ubuntu or something?  Or is it not as simple as that.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 21, 2008, 10:33
well, yeah it is that simple but you could get both working. I'd suggest you get the advanced desktop mode working first - then we should be able to fix the WPA.... if not then Ubuntu is the thing todo...
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 21, 2008, 10:36
OK, we have Advanced Desktop!   :yeaah:  Now what?
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 21, 2008, 10:50
OK, we have Advanced Desktop!   :yeaah:  Now what?

wooh! excellent. So the question I asked earlier might be useful, did your SSID or passphrase have spaces in it?

and this depends what we do next.... this is a bit more complex (I haven't tried todo this...)

http://wiki.eeeuser.com/howto:wpawithspaces

or

http://wiki.eeeuser.com/wpa_default_xandros
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 21, 2008, 10:52
No, neither the SSID or the password has spaces in it.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 21, 2008, 12:00
ok then, it should be the second link....
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 21, 2008, 12:22
Christ, that will take hours!  Isn't there a simpler way to do it via the Advanced mode?
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 21, 2008, 12:28
just copy and paste the commands into the terminal, it shouldn't take too long, I'm not convinced there is actually an easier way. I really don't like the way Xandros does this.

The other option, is to install Ubuntu - I reckon we can get it working in there (and with surprising ease), though you will probably need an SD card todo this and it will take time to install Ubuntu. In fact, I think this is going to be the easier route.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 21, 2008, 12:30
I like the 'Windows' type layout of Xandros - will Ubuntu have the same sort of thing?  Got plenty of SD cards, up to 2Gb.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 21, 2008, 16:16
yep, ubuntu will.... 2gb should do it.

http://www.ubuntu-eee.com/index.php5?title=Get_Ubuntu_Eee
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Camstop on August 21, 2008, 19:26
At least in advance mode it looks a bit more like a PC than a kids toy in basic  ;D

Actually i don't think that version of L picks up 2GB of ram if i remember right  ':|

And why not use XP if your using it on all your other PC's  :dunno:
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 21, 2008, 20:50
xandros is not the best version of Linux. It isn't the most robust or have the best range of software built into it. It is in its infancy.

The whole point behind the eeepc's is to have a light operating system, that is aimed at ease of use and a kids pc.

Why use XP when you can have Linux... this could go on and on....
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Camstop on August 21, 2008, 20:52
 ;D
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 21, 2008, 21:03
Why should I have to pay for XP, when the machine should have a working OS already on it?   ::)

Just downloading Ubuntu, and have also come across unetbootin (http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/), which is supposed to make the process more automated for numpties.  :)
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 21, 2008, 21:13
.. and it does have a working OS, just not the best in the world.

Oh and my sentiments completely about paying, why pay for Windows when you can have Linux!

As for unetbootin, never come across that before but it does look really good! Good find!
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 21, 2008, 21:22
Don't get me wrong, Sam, I'm not turning into a Linux fan!   ;)  I just want this bloody thing to work properly, and it's now become a challenge.   :devil:  I guess, once I've installed Ubuntu, there's no going back, and I won't be able to get a refund if it doesn't work.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 21, 2008, 23:01
Right, I'm Ubuntued up and running, and online with my WPA key!  :yeaah:  Now all I've got to do is find my way round this weird OS!  First off, I want to switch off the password requests each time I want to do something.  It's worse than bloody Vista!
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Camstop on August 22, 2008, 07:47
 ;D
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 22, 2008, 08:36
Right, I'm Ubuntued up and running, and online with my WPA key!  :yeaah:  Now all I've got to do is find my way round this weird OS!  First off, I want to switch off the password requests each time I want to do something.  It's worse than bloody Vista!

WOOH!

Si, its not weird just different. I guess its halfway between a mac and windows. To change your password settings you need to do it in the account settings though to be honest I don't bother as its rather insecure (and I'm not actually sure how to turn it off). Mine doesn't ask me too often - only when I'm installing new software - or updates.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 22, 2008, 08:38
oh and just remember security is number 1 with linux
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 22, 2008, 08:40
oh and a good site for all things ubuntu.. http://ubuntuforums.org/
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Rik on August 22, 2008, 09:48
It's worse than bloody Vista!

Is that possible??  :o
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 22, 2008, 10:41
OK, some questions, probably for Sam:

1. How can I stop it asking for a password each time it tries to make a wireless connection? (Edit: sorry, didn't see above post).

2. How do I actually install programs?  I've downloaded the Linux version of Sea Monkey, but clicking on the install.exe does nothing.  If I install it from Synopsis Package Manager, it installs an older version, and there's no way to update it within the program interface.

3. A curious issue: when I shut it down, the green light stays lit on the front of the unit, and the only way to get rid of it seems to be to remove the battery.  Any ideas?

4. I tried to overwrite some of the files in my Firefox profile with updated ones, for saved cookies, passwords, bookmarks, etc, but it won't let me write to the profile, saying I don't 'own' the directory, or something.  I'm the only user, so assume I am the administrator, but is there something I need to do to assert administrator rights?

That's it for now, but don't go on any long holidays!  ;D
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 22, 2008, 14:48
1. How can I stop it asking for a password each time it tries to make a wireless connection? (Edit: sorry, didn't see above post).

You should be able to save it... there might be an option in the network config, I'm running a slightly (home modified) version and it might not be the same. I'll have a think.

2. How do I actually install programs?  I've downloaded the Linux version of Sea Monkey, but clicking on the install.exe does nothing.  If I install it from Synopsis Package Manager, it installs an older version, and there's no way to update it within the program interface.

You sure an .exe for a linux package? Just that's not normal! :-D Using the package manager is by far the best, I'd suggest having a look at the ubuntu guide. Sometime, you need to change the location of the repository where it gets the software from - by default it will probably only get it from ubuntu verified packages, which as you can guess is never quite the latest version for software that updates often.

3. A curious issue: when I shut it down, the green light stays lit on the front of the unit, and the only way to get rid of it seems to be to remove the battery.  Any ideas?

Hmm, no idea - I've not had that problem. I'm assume it seems to fully shut down properly..?

4. I tried to overwrite some of the files in my Firefox profile with updated ones, for saved cookies, passwords, bookmarks, etc, but it won't let me write to the profile, saying I don't 'own' the directory, or something.  I'm the only user, so assume I am the administrator, but is there something I need to do to assert administrator rights?

Ah... but you aren't admin by default - you will probably find this annoying but this is a key issue about security. So todo this you need need to be logged in as root. So if you copy the files at the commandline (in the terminal windows)

sudo cp -r THEFILES /the/directory/of/firefox/profiles

If you need to find out the actual location of the firefox profile at the commandline type:

pwd

i.e. print working directory

That's it for now, but don't go on any long holidays!  ;D

Well I'm France Tuesday till Sat... :-D
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 22, 2008, 14:50
oh and seamonkey...

take a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SeaMonkey
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 22, 2008, 14:51
Is that possible??  :o

he exaggerates. Either that or something is wrong!
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 22, 2008, 15:18
You should be able to save it... there might be an option in the network config, I'm running a slightly (home modified) version and it might not be the same. I'll have a think.

I've been doing some digging myself, and I think I've solved that by telling it to use cached 'keyrings' automatically.  Not sure if it's worked yet though.

Quote
You sure an .exe for a linux package? Just that's not normal! :-D Using the package manager is by far the best, I'd suggest having a look at the ubuntu guide. Sometime, you need to change the location of the repository where it gets the software from - by default it will probably only get it from ubuntu verified packages, which as you can guess is never quite the latest version for software that updates often.

Oh, well, you know what I mean, an install file anyway.  It turns out there is a way to install the latest version, but it's way over my head, so I'll stick to Firefox for now.

Quote
Hmm, no idea - I've not had that problem. I'm assume it seems to fully shut down properly..?

That's fixed!  I found out it's a bug in the sound module, which was shutting down the OS but not allowing the machine to power off.  Did the following:

Quote
Open a Console window using Ctrl-Alt-T
edit the file /etc/default/halt:
sudo nano /etc/default/halt
Add the following line at the end of the file:
rmmod snd-hda-intel
save the file and reboot.

Quote
Ah... but you aren't admin by default - you will probably find this annoying but this is a key issue about security. So todo this you need need to be logged in as root. So if you copy the files at the commandline (in the terminal windows)

sudo cp -r THEFILES /the/directory/of/firefox/profiles

If you need to find out the actual location of the firefox profile at the commandline type:

pwd

i.e. print working directory

Now you see why I think Windows is easier?   ::)

Quote
Well I'm France Tuesday till Sat... :-D

Not to worry, it will probably have been crushed to a pulp by then.  I really don't think I have the patience for it, but thanks for all your help.  :)
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 22, 2008, 15:56
easier != secure.  ;)
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 22, 2008, 16:06
but in all seriousness I understand that Linux isn't for everyone and if people are generally careful and aware of security issues then Windows is fine. To me copying files via the commandline comes much more naturally than having all this dragging and dropping bull. I know it works but doing things at the commandline is so, so much faster. Its just not as natural to the end user... but I feel that's where the GUI removes the user from the fact that they are using a computer. Anyway, Ubuntu can do both - apart from in a few cases, where like here, you can probably get around - but I'm not sure how to never having seen going "sudo cp -r " as an issue ... Linux will get even easier as time passes but you just managed to install it and mess around with the config files!!!! 8-)
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 22, 2008, 17:08
It's having trouble with Pals at the moment - I don't think it likes the flash sigs.  :(  However, I am typing on it as you ncsan probably tekllk, snd hsvuing trouible getting used to the small jeys.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 22, 2008, 17:10
Oh, by the way, there's no anti-virus or anything on it at the moment.  Do I need something?  The old software had anti-viris.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 22, 2008, 17:11
Hmm, that must be firefox I guess... do you have ephinay installed - you can always try that.

Yes, the small keys are fun, lol. You get used to them after a while though, I wrote a whole observing proposal on mine on the train... so its feasible!
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 22, 2008, 17:12
antivirus - no need really but there are a few tools out there... I've gone blank on their names now. The antivirus is more useful if you intend to use files on a windows machine...
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 22, 2008, 18:05
OK, I just think I'd feel more secure with something.
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Rik on August 22, 2008, 18:20
You could always get a box from a local sports store, Simon. ;D :scoot:
Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: sam on August 23, 2008, 18:28
OK, I just think I'd feel more secure with something.

Si... dont worry so much Linux doesn't suffer from the virus issues that Windows does. It has inbuilt firewalls that actually work, i.e. it doens't open ports by default... and the kernel is much harder to attack.

Though if you are worried, here are some options:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus
(oh and the one I was thinkng of is ClamAV - I do have it isntalled but never use it https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ClamAV)

Title: Re: Eee PC not so eeesy?
Post by: Simon on August 24, 2008, 11:56
Thanks Sam, I think I might try the Avast one, if I can manage to install it.  :)