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General Discussion => Science & Nature => Topic started by: sam on April 17, 2010, 23:12

Title: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 17, 2010, 23:12
Quote
OSLO (Reuters) - A thaw of Iceland's ice caps in coming decades caused by climate change may trigger more volcanic eruptions by removing a vast weight and freeing magma from deep below ground, scientists said on Friday.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ice-cap-thaw-iceland-volcanoes
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Clive on April 17, 2010, 23:19
They are now talking about that volcano erupting for 18 months!   :bawl:  You will become a Canadian Sam. 
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Simon on April 17, 2010, 23:21
Good God!  Imagine if they kept the airspace closed all that time!
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 17, 2010, 23:22
They are now talking about that volcano erupting for 18 months!   :bawl:  You will become a Canadian Sam. 

I'll be on a boat before that!
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Clive on April 17, 2010, 23:33
 :woo:
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 12:09
If the situation were to continue for any length of time, I suspect it would have more impact on global economies than the recession. Airlines would go bust, plus all the service industries, thousands would lose their jobs. The foreign producers who rely on air freight to get their produce to market would be ruined, food prices (in particular) would go up, and there would be a price war to obtain cargo shipping.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2010, 12:33
But other than that, we'll be OK?   :o
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 12:37
Maybe. ;D
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 18, 2010, 15:01
everyone will start to use trains again and we will become environmentally friendly... with the occasional sacrifice to the gods of the mountain.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 15:16
You're going to find it hard to get home, then, Sam. ;)
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 18, 2010, 17:02
train across canada then I'll get on a boat... something like the titanic...  :crazy:

(p.s. I said nothing about intercontinental flights... I just thinks its daft when people go on a flight from London to Edinburgh - use the fecking train)
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 17:04
I can't see the point of most domestic flights, given you have to travel to the airport, be there early for check in etc. OTOH, the railways have a pricing structure that makes flying more economical.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 18, 2010, 17:06
only just though. I tend to find trains a hell of a lot more relaxing and if I wanted to not get a cab or a lift to the airport I'd probably have to get to a train anyway... oh well. Silly people. I wonder if this will have a knock on effect with the trains and ferrys becoming more popular... its a shame its so expensive to use the eurostar. I love travelling on the train in Europe and would quite happily do that instead of a plane.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 17:21
I must admit liking trains, perhaps because of my age. When I was a kid, few people had cars, fewer could afford to fly, so the train was the way to go. I remember my first sleeper trip to Inverness like it was yesterday. That huge beast of a steam engine, the wonderful smells, the exciting sights, watching the countryside roll past the window (sleep? I was way too excited!).
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: mistybear on April 18, 2010, 17:52
I'm with you Sam, I much prefer trains. Far more relaxing and you can get up and walk around. Plus I hate flying, at least when I'm sober.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 18, 2010, 18:13
I like to fly to be honest. I like trains too. If I had the option it would always be trains. That really isn't an option over here in Canada - much easier to fly (locally never mind back to the UK).

I love big steam engines, but I'd rather be on one of the high speed trains we have no. Shame they can't go as fast as they should. Can't wait for the government to get their fingers out and properly invest in the rail network. Its the way to go.. having all linked up with local metro services and job done, you never need a car.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 18:27
They should have stuck with Brunel's wide gauge.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 18, 2010, 18:28
oh they should have. That and thought about the height of road bridges a little more.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 18:29
Brunel was miles ahead of the rest of his generation.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 18, 2010, 18:34
a great engineer who we should be very thankful for.

And his father was pretty smart too... the Thames Tunnel and all.

the atmospheric railway is something that always makes me go wow... and I feel sad that such interesting developments were ignored. How we should have high speed maglevs now if people listened.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 18:36
Yes, the Thames tunnel was a massive achievement - I got to walk through it as a kid. Brunel was a good architect as well as engineer - a real Renaissance man.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 18, 2010, 18:39
cool that would have been a nice walk.  I wonder if it is part of the new London Overground network since the East Line was shut?
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 18:45
Possible, Sam, I haven't been back to London for 30 years now. I also had the privilege of walking the tunnels in the Post Office Railway. Great fun, really interesting to be down there.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 18, 2010, 19:01
cool - they have a few post office tunnels in brum that have now been shut, which is a shame

You haven't been to London for 30 years? Bet its changed quite a bit!
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 19:03
I doubt that I would recognise large swathes, but the house I grew up in looks much the same on Google.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 18, 2010, 19:04
ah good old Google.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 19:05
Some say that, others know the sod. ;D
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2010, 19:35
 :laugh:
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Clive on April 18, 2010, 19:38
When I visited Glasgow to attend a wedding in 2008 train fare from Cardiff was £125 each, airfare £40 each.  No contest really.   :dunno:
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 19:41
That's a lot of the problem, Clive.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2010, 19:43
Yes, I've often wondered why train travel is so much more expensive than virtually any other. 
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Clive on April 18, 2010, 19:48
It's not like that in France.  Probably not in the rest of Europe either but I think Sam is the expert on rail travel in Europe!  8-)
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 19:50
It's crazy. If they want to get us out of our cars and off the planes, they need to address train fares.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Clive on April 18, 2010, 19:55
Something I have always said Rik!  :(
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 18, 2010, 19:56
Me too. No-one ever listens though, do they? :(
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 18, 2010, 20:02
It's not like that in France.  Probably not in the rest of Europe either but I think Sam is the expert on rail travel in Europe!  8-)

yeah its not - then again I found Italy fairly pricey for the trains... but the rest seemed very reasonable... and cheaper for the same distance than the UK. The problem we have is that the system is so fragmented now its easy for the companies to mess up the prices.

Also the train to Glasgow was probably one of Virgin's cash cows...
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Sandra on April 19, 2010, 00:56
The best railways in europe are in France and Germany and are part nationalised and subsidised by the state.
As far as I know there is only one party in the UK that wants to renationalise the utilities, so I presume that would include the railways, for the benefit of the British people and not just for big companies to make vast profits at the publics expense.
If they got in power then our railways could compete to once again be the amongst the best in the world  :)
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Sandra on April 19, 2010, 02:11
By a strange coincidence I have just read this on the BNP website :

http://bnp.org.uk/2010/04/the-madness-of-torylabour-privatisation-german-state-about-to-buy-arriva-trains-and-busses-in-britain/

Quote
German state-owned Deutsche Bahn is about to buy the Arriva train and bus network in Britain, proving the Tory/Labour privatisation policy to be a shocking hoax which has seen Britain’s infrastructure pass into foreign ownership.

Deutsche Bahn is set to buy Arriva for about £1.6 billion within the next two weeks, according to news reports.

Arriva runs 20 percent of London’s buses and the Cross-Country and Wales rail franchises. According to reports, Deutsche Bahn has been in detailed talks with Arriva since making an approach last month.

Deutsche Bahn has the backing of the German government in its takeover bid which gave it an advantage over the French state-controlled SNCF railway network, which was also attempting to buy Arriva.

The French government refused to back the SNCF bid, as now the path is open for the German state to buy up yet more of Britain’s infrastructure.

Deutsche Bahn was created in 1994 through a merger of the rail arms of west and east Germany. It is one of the largest transport groups in the world, and the biggest railway operator and infrastructure owner in Europe.

The move gives lie to the underlying rationale for privatisation in the first place, namely that the British state could not run a transport network efficiently.

It seems, under the Tory privatisation plan (which was endorsed and carried through by Labour) that it is “wrong” for the British state to own our railway network, but it is perfectly acceptable for the German state to own it.

As I thought, the article goes on to say :

Quote
“The BNP would re-nationalise the railways,” Mr Prince told a local newspaper. “All profits will be re-invested and the days of putting passengers’ safety at risk due to shareholders’ returns would be a thing of the past.

A so called right wing party that has real left wing socialist policies, more like old labour was than new labour is now  :)
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 19, 2010, 02:14
I'd definitely argue that the UK's railways are still amongst the best in the world.

Also with Arriva they just get a franchise that surely has to be renewed.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Simon on April 19, 2010, 13:59
It has to be said, the Germans do tend to do things more efficiently, so perhaps it's not such a bad thing for Arriva?
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 19, 2010, 14:08
indeed
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Sandra on April 19, 2010, 17:06
Unfortunately we could end up in the same situation with our trains as we are in with our energy suppliers, once they are owned and controlled by foreign governments. France wouldnt allow EDF, ( I think thats the majority state owned French energy company), to increase their charges to the French by more than 5% while having no such qualms about increasing them to us by 50% a couple of years back  >:(
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Clive on April 19, 2010, 20:15
I dumped EDF last year after they put their charges up when all the others were decreasing them! 
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 20, 2010, 04:25
EDF are big world wide not just in France / UK.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lectricit%C3%A9_de_France#Main_partners

EDF are on the market so I doubt the Frence Government play a large part in them.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Sandra on April 20, 2010, 04:42
I think theyre a majority shareholder, I know they dictated a maximum price increase for french consumers. It was widely reported at the time.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 20, 2010, 04:44
I think theyre a majority shareholder, I know they dictated a maximum price increase for french consumers. It was widely reported at the time.

Was it?? I don't recall though. I took a look at their website and couldn't see who the majority shareholders was - then again it could have just been government policy.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Sandra on April 20, 2010, 04:55
Just under 2 years ago Sam, according to this article :

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/55944/French-energy-firm-rips-off-UK-families
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Clive on April 20, 2010, 09:39
I was one of the great "ripped off".   >:(
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Simon on April 20, 2010, 10:12
I escaped just in time. 
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Clive on April 20, 2010, 16:15
What annoyed me was that I was mis-sold it by Sainsbury's who call it Sainsbury Energy.  They told me they were not linked to any particular energy company and would always switch to the cheapest provider.  That of course was a downright lie as all they are doing is reselling EDF.  I have no proof that I was mis-sold because there was nothing in writing and no record of a telephone conversation since the salesperson accosted while we were shopping in Sainsbury's.  My bill went up 50% during a time when British Gas started to lower their tariffs.   >:(
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: sam on April 21, 2010, 00:55
that's what you get for shopping in Sainsbury's - surely you only ever shop at M&S or Waitrose
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Clive on April 21, 2010, 08:45
M&S usually.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Simon on April 21, 2010, 10:42
If only they delivered.  :bawl:
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 21, 2010, 10:44
Don't they? They do for wine. ;D
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Simon on April 21, 2010, 10:45
Not for food.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 21, 2010, 10:50
I wonder why not, that's missing a trick to me, especially with the ready meals etc.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Simon on April 21, 2010, 11:06
Indeed.  Everyone else does it. 
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 21, 2010, 11:08
Given all their food-only outlets, eg BP stations, you'd have thought it was the logical next step.
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Simon on April 21, 2010, 11:52
I can but hope.  :)
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 21, 2010, 11:54
Watch the salt content. :)
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Simon on April 21, 2010, 12:30
I don't just eat ready meals!  ;D
Title: Re: Ice cap thaw may awaken Icelandic volcanoes
Post by: Rik on April 21, 2010, 12:57
 ;D