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General Discussion => The Buzz => Topic started by: GillE on August 01, 2010, 11:07

Title: Our Drugs War
Post by: GillE on August 01, 2010, 11:07
I'm looking forward to seeing Our Drugs War (http://www.radiotimes.com/ListingsServlet?event=10&channelId=132&programmeId=120785135&jspLocation=/jsp/prog_details_fullpage.jsp) on Monday, C4 at 8pm.  Apparently Angus MacQueen has won awards for documentaries, so this looks very promising.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Simon on August 01, 2010, 11:22
Looks like it might be interesting, Gill.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Rik on August 01, 2010, 12:04
If depressing.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Simon on August 01, 2010, 13:39
Well, it's probably another war we'll never win.  :(
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Rik on August 01, 2010, 15:22
True. :(
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: GillE on August 01, 2010, 15:44
I suspect it's another war we should never have even started, but I think we need a more open and better informed public debate on the subject.  Most people seem to think it's enough to say, "My neighbour's young lad was a lovely fellow until he started taking drugs.  Only a reckless fool would consider legalising them."

 ::)
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: sam on August 01, 2010, 16:10
I personally feel legalize, tax and be done with it. Ok its not that simple, but it would overnight remove all the criminal gangs selling drugs...
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Rik on August 01, 2010, 16:16
Sadly, though, to judge by the lessons of prohibition, they would simply move on to another area where they could make money, Sam.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Rodders on August 01, 2010, 23:29
I'm firmly with Sam on this one.  The majority of criminal acts are perpetrated by addicts who are desperate for money to buy drugs.  Quite what we'd do about the subsequent increase in demand on NHS resources is another matter.  Another bonus is that the Taliban might suddenly find themselves having to work for a living.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: GillE on August 02, 2010, 00:11
I'd like to see more informed discussion before really committing myself, but I have to say that the arguments in favour of legalisation that I've heard so far are overwhelming.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: sam on August 02, 2010, 00:22
I'd like to see impact assessments etc, you know things the government doesn't like producing properly - graphs.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Simon on August 02, 2010, 00:30
My worry is that if drugs were legalised, they would be easier to get hold of, therefore, more people would take them, and become addicted.  I know it's the difficulty of obtaining drugs which turns people to crime, but do we really want people wandering the streets like zombies, or presenting other extreme behaviours?
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: sam on August 02, 2010, 00:35
well you could start small legalize cannabis and see what happens... I don't think people all walk around holland like that though - I expect it would be like alcohol for the people who take it - you go out and have a good time at the weekend but work hard in the week. Most of the drugs that could be legalised just aren't addictive. We don't seem to have a problem with people smoking...  "wandering the streets like zombies" comes to mind with that :-D
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Simon on August 02, 2010, 00:51
Anything is addictive if you allow it to become so, but I take the point about starting small.  It will be interesting to see what class of drugs the programme talks about.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: GillE on August 02, 2010, 01:12
That's not what has happened in Portugal, Simon.  Drug usage there has actually declined since a more liberal regime was introduced.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Simon on August 02, 2010, 01:31
I wonder why that would be, Gill?  I know this is an extreme analogy, but if alcohol was suddenly free, would that mean there'd be less alcoholics?  :dunno:
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: sam on August 02, 2010, 02:10
I guess that risqué part is just removed?
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Rik on August 02, 2010, 10:32
One thing we should not lose sight of is that other countries are not necessarily a good model for what would happen here. Just look at extended drinking hours and you'll understand what I mean.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: GillE on August 02, 2010, 14:41
I'm not sure the problems associated with extended drinking hours are as pronounced as the media tells us.  The only claims I've seen have been made by those who have a vested interest in shorter drinking hours, such as the police and the NHS.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Rik on August 02, 2010, 14:51
I've seen it here, Gill, and it's not pretty.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: sam on August 02, 2010, 19:18
as someone who frequents those longer drinking hours (or has, not in the last year much being well over in Canada) I've not seen the problems. It has felt that people are more relaxed and there isn't the rush to go the bar and get s**t faced on the last round. Maybe I've just grown up a bit too  :laugh:
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: GillE on August 03, 2010, 01:21
I found the programme very interesting.

The police only intercept 1% of all drugs trafficked in the UK.  The UN has estimated that the police would have to intercept 60% to make any difference to consumption.  It is not unusual for parents to use their children to facilitate their drug habits because children make it is easier to evade the law, thus ensuring that drug usage spreads through the generations.  The criminals who run drug smuggling operations find it very easy to corrupt officials whose duty it is to intercept drugs; practically everyone has a price or a vulnerability which can be exploited.  This made me wonder how far corruption in our society has spread.  It cannot be limited to just the men on the front line - their superiors and their superiors must also be involved.  Criminals would be appalled if narcotics were to be legalised because it is a cash cow for them.

There were many other points raised in the programme but these are the ones that have stuck in my head.  I shall watch it again and I look forward to the next episodes with eager anticipation.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: nilsatis on August 03, 2010, 10:41
I don't think it's as easy as suddenly legalising drugs, if they were legal then they would be taxed and dearer to buy, the dealers would carry on dealing untaxed/cheaper drugs, it just creates a different problem, saying that though, I do not have the answer.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Simon on August 03, 2010, 11:06
I don't think anyone has an answer.  I didn't see the programme last night, but have recorded it.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Rik on August 03, 2010, 11:13
Sometimes I think we haven't identified the question.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: GillE on August 03, 2010, 14:01
What's the question?  I think it's got a lot to do with unfulfilled aspirations; I also think it's got a lot to do with wanting to escape from a variety of pressures such as poverty and social responsibilities.

I'm not sure what the answer is either.  I just know that what we're doing now is actually worsening the situation.  We've got to stop and do something else, and if nobody can suggest a viable alternative to legalisation then I'm prepared to go down that route.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: sam on August 03, 2010, 15:03
usrely it all just a question of education?
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: Rik on August 03, 2010, 15:32
What's the question?  I think it's got a lot to do with unfulfilled aspirations; I also think it's got a lot to do with wanting to escape from a variety of pressures such as poverty and social responsibilities.

I agree with you Gill, often media-fuelled unrealistic aspirations. People start believing that life should be like the adverts, permanent blue skies, money no object. Shows like Big Brother have simply added fuel to that particular fire.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: GillE on August 03, 2010, 16:02
Education has a significant part to play, Sam, but it's just part of the overall culture.  There is very little social mobility in this country.  People (not just youngsters) need to be in an environment which makes it worthwhile having the skills to rise above the commonplace.  They need to feel that their efforts will be rewarded commensurately.  Instead we live in a world where the rich get richer and the poor have to turn tricks just to get by.  It's no wonder there's little social opprobrium in many communities towards those who flout the law or take other easy options.
Title: Re: Our Drugs War
Post by: sam on August 04, 2010, 05:54
Quote
There is very little social mobility in this country.

Indeed. I feel very fortunate that I was able to have the education I did. I swear 99% of the people I went to school with haven't. I don't think its important really, as long as you are happy but still... I'm pleased to have had the opportunities.