PC Pals Forum

Technical Help & Discussion => Self Building, Upgrading & General Hardware Help => Topic started by: joudi on May 27, 2003, 02:37

Title: Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on May 27, 2003, 02:37: Hi everyone,
Well, I'm coming today to you with a new problem hoping to find the answer:
As I don't use floppy disk so often, I didn't notice the problem and was not sure of it till after the end of the garrantee of my computer. It's still new, PC AMD Athlon 1600, Windows XP. Now the problem happens more often than before: when I use the floppy disk it causes the total freezing of the computer. The mouse doesn't move anymore and nothing works anymore. Everything stops. Only the page which was on the screen stays there. Till I Stop totally the computer and restart it. Sometimes I have to restart it again to be able to use the floppy disk.
I Got another new floppy disk player, Sony, like the original. The problem is still there. :'(
Anyone has any idea??? Thank you
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on May 27, 2003, 03:01: Hi again Joudi,is there any indication of something not right if you look in Device Manager,yellow ? or ! etc?
When you tried the second floppy drive did you check that it was properly plugged into the motherboard.
I had a problem with a floppy recently when replacing it in a different PC and was struggling to get the cable plug in properly as I was unable to see it properly and somehow I had bent a pin on the floppy drive.
Fortunately I managed to straighten it without it breaking off and got away with it ::)
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on May 27, 2003, 03:39: Hi Sandra, thank you for your fast reaction.It seems to me that you don't sleep so early at night... Anyway:
Well I have no message at all in the device manager concerning this problem. I have another red message there, error n° 7000 that doesn't concern floppy disk driver. It concerns USB problem which is repeated often in my computer and I don't know what it is. I think it doesn't have any relation to the floppy driver because it's not extern driver. it has not USB connection.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on May 27, 2003, 03:50: Hi again Sandra,
Sorry, I forgot to answer you for the second part of your question. I think that the pluggings inside my computer are well connected. I mean that I tried to push and press them to my best possibility. I didn't like to break the mother board neither by using all my force. So I think that the problem doesn't remain there.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Adept on May 27, 2003, 08:48: Hi joudi :) Have you tried virus checking your PC?
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on May 27, 2003, 10:21: Hi Adept, nice to hear from you again,
Answering to your question: yes. And I tried other things too, like the full restoration of my system..the reinstalation of windows XP..And I tried to use different marks and kinds of diskets, old and new...The problem is stil there.
I like to remind that I have on my computer two XP systems separated on two hard disks. The problem appears while using also both. ???
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Simon on May 27, 2003, 10:45: Hi Joudi,

Is there a BIOS setting to enable / disable the floppy disc drive? Just a thought. :)
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Adept on May 27, 2003, 11:21: Quote from: Simon on May 27, 2003, 10:45

Hi Joudi,

Is there a BIOS setting to enable / disable the floppy disc drive? Just a thought. :)

On the right track I think Simon :o ;D

Joudi, it might be worth having a look at your motherboard manufacturer's website to see if there are any reported problems with floppy drive support. You may need to re-flash your BIOS with a later version.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on May 27, 2003, 12:34: Would SEEK FLOPPY being enabled do strange things like that Adept if there was only the one floppy drive fitted,I think mine did some funny stuff once when I enabled it by mistake ???
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Adept on May 27, 2003, 12:40: Seek floppy is a startup thing Sandra. It wouldn't affect the PC once it is running.

Joudi's problem is that the PC is locking up in Windows when he uses the floppy drive ???
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on May 27, 2003, 12:50: Oh well maybe when I have woken up I will get some more sensible ideas ;)

Sorry Joudi I didnt answer your earlier bit about sleeping.
There arent many nights that I get to bed before 3 am local time,in the UK that is,and often it can be 4 am 8)

Some idiotic meter reader called this morning at 11 am and even though I was out of bed and at the door within 30 seconds he had gone away,why do they do that ???

If I had been an old dear like Serenity or had her crippling arthritis I wouldnt have been able to have got out of my chair by the time he had gone ::)
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: lobo on May 27, 2003, 16:04: @Joudi

Sorry post seems to have cocked up will try again
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: lobo on May 27, 2003, 16:13: @Joudi

Will your PC boot from a floppy, if so its your Windows installation thats suspect, if not it could be a faulty floppy. cable or motherboard, or the drive not being correctly detected in BIOS.

Brian ::)
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Tony on May 28, 2003, 00:02: Quote
Quote from: Sandra [br /

Some idiotic meter reader called this morning at 11 am and even though I was out of bed and at the door within 30 seconds he had gone away,why do they do that ???

Maybe he aint an idiot, maybe he has seen past their prime 30 second risers once to often ;D ;)
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on May 28, 2003, 00:11: Mmmmmm dont forget I have seen your real photo Tony :P

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Tony on May 28, 2003, 00:28: Quote from: Sandra on May 28, 2003, 00:11

Mmmmmm dont forget I have seen your real photo Tony :P

:lol: :lol: :lol:

And you thought that was bad !!!! I better not show you an up todate one ::) ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on May 28, 2003, 01:42: Hello again to all,
Answering Lobo: Yes, it does boot from floppy...but the problem also happens there sometimes. So I have to make many tries (sometimes) to make it work. the problem happens in the same way like any other time. And in the BIOS, Although I don't understand enough, the floppy disk is enabled as I can see. In fact, it's working, but it has that problem from time to time.

Answering Adept: Without opening the computer, I succeded many times to see the composants and all the pieces of my computer and their details by serching somewhere in the programs. I'm trying now to do the same to be able to answer your question about the motherboard, I am unable to find my way to arrive there.
In fact, I am afraid to realize at last that the problem is in the motherboard (I really hope not). I can add that I have no problem in the CD's Drivers. If the problem is in the motherboard, must it not affect all the drivers? :-\
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on May 28, 2003, 01:50: Not necessarily Joudi,as far as I know it could be a fault on the floppy disc controller bit whereas the IDE controllers for the CD and hard drive may be ok.
I am not that experienced with motherboard faults but there are a lot of ICs on all boards now and any one being faulty could affect one part of the PCs performance without affecting another probably ???
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Clive on May 28, 2003, 07:49: Joudi, if you are saying that you want to know which motherboard you have without opening up your computer, try downloading AIDA32. This will provide you with details of all your computer's components.

http://www.aida32.hu/aida-download.php?bit=32
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Simon on May 28, 2003, 08:29: Just a wild guess (again!) Joudi, but have you tried another floppy disc cable? In these situations, it's often a case of step by step elimination, and anything is worth a try. ;)
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on May 28, 2003, 10:10: Hello and thanks to all who participated in giving answers to my problem,

Clive: It's a wonderfull link that you've mentioned in your answer. Thanks a lot.

Simon: Yes, I tried an other connection cable when buying the other floppy driver I bought the cable too, without any result.

Adept: At last I got to know the identity of my motherboard, it's that:

Motherboard Properties   
Motherboard ID   11/05/2001-VT8366-8233-6A6LVM4AC-00
Motherboard Name   MSI MS-6382(E)
   
Front Side Bus Properties   
Bus Type   DEC Alpha EV6
Bus Width   64-bit
Real Clock   133 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock   267 MHz
Bandwidth   2133 MB/s
   
Memory Bus Properties   
Bus Type   DDR SDRAM
Bus Width   64-bit
Real Clock   133 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock   267 MHz
Bandwidth   2133 MB/s
   
Chipset Bus Properties   
Bus Type   VIA V-Link
Bus Width   8-bit
Real Clock   67 MHz (QDR)
Effective Clock   267 MHz
Bandwidth   267 MB/s
   
Motherboard Physical Info   
CPU Sockets/Slots   1
Expansion Slots   3 PCI, 1 AGP, 1 CNR
RAM Slots   2 DIMM
Integrated Devices   Audio
Form Factor   Micro ATX
Motherboard Chipset   KT266(A)
   
Motherboard Manufacturer   
Company Name   Micro-Star International
Product Information   http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_list.php
BIOS Download   http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/bios/bos/spt_bos_list.php
   
Problems & Suggestions   
Problem   Less than 3 memory slots detected. Expanding system memory may become difficult.

So could that mean to you anything? Please if you want to help me can you tell me what to do step by step? Because I am afraide to touch the bios without having enough knowledge about it.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Clive on May 28, 2003, 13:09: I shouldn't take the credit for the link because Hookstar probably posted it here originally. He's the one who usually finds all the useful links. ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on May 28, 2003, 13:15: Thats the same board as mine Joudi althought mines the 6382 ver2 (its about 6 months newer)
Not that that helps at all I just thought that I would let you know :-*

Clive how come you are recommending inferior ladies like AIDA when we all know that Si Soft Sandra is the one to have,anything called Sandra has to be better ::)
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Tony on May 28, 2003, 16:04: Hi joudi,

have you checked and flashed a later verision of the bios?

MSI have a little tool called 'Live Update2' download it and then it will check to see if your board needs it's bios updating [it will auto recognise your board]

http://www.msi.com.tw/html/support/liveupdate/main.htm (http://www.msi.com.tw/html/support/liveupdate/main.htm)

PS: there are also some handy little utilities worth downloading as well via Live Update2
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Simon on May 28, 2003, 18:31: I would just point out here that flashing your BIOS is not something to be taken lightly. You can do irrepairable damage to your motherboard if you get it wrong. Please take expert advice if you consider attempting this procedure. ;) ;D ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on May 28, 2003, 23:26: Thanks a lot Tony,
It seems an interesting link to me.

Thanks Simon for that precious advice of worning.

Well, I don't know If we can make the "live update" normally like any other program. If so, I'm capable to do it myself. But if it's risky, as Simon says, I prefer the help of someone else. Perhaps someone from the forum who knows enough about it.
In fact, it's my first time I hear about "Flashing the Bios". Technically I don't know what does it mean. Is it only updating, or more than that? And how to do it? Do you think it may correct the problem?

Thanks in advance to anyone who gives suggestions.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on May 28, 2003, 23:41: Hi Joudi,I tried to do mine before Xmas (Noel pour vous,je pense ;) ) on my old PC
I followed the instructions from the motherboard manufacturers site (That was a FIC PAG 2130 board)
It was quite detailed and explained how to do it in easy to understand terms including explaining how to make a back up of the original BIOS in case the new one didnt work properly and you needed to revert to the older one.
I tried a few times without success and ended up having to take it to a friend (Lobo,a member of Pals) and he tried following FICs instructions.There was no way it would work so he did it as he usually does them and it worked straight away ::)
The one thing that I noticed which will possibly reassure you if you are a little scared of trying it (as I was),is that it guides you as you get to the stage that you are about to update it and asks you if you want to make a back up copy and does it for you.
After it has done that it will proceed to update the new BIOS and if it fails to update will tell you it has failed and will leave the original one in place without altering anything.

A Bios update allows your motherboard to do various things.Mine enabled it to support a Hard drive of up to 127 gig when it wouldnt recognise a 40 gig one that I had just bought with the original BIOS.Other updates enable other things or possibly allow them to be done more efficiently.
Bon chance :-*
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on May 29, 2003, 00:24: Sandra: Mais voilà une anglaise qui parle bien le français :-*. Je me disais toujours que cette femme (Sandra) doit être une femme qui a pas mal de qualités. Et voilà, Je me trompe pas.

Well, I can understand that you are encouraging me to do it by myself. I don't have arround me someone in whom I can have a total confidance concerning the Bios in case I follow a wrong way (although I know myself: I'm not going to do wrong things. only in case). I'll wait a little to see if there will be other interesting advices from the forum to give me more determination to do it.

A très bientôt SANDRA.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Simon on May 29, 2003, 09:29: I believe the crucial part is getting the correct update for your motherboard, Joudi. Not having done it myself, I can't offer any further help, but it looks like the tool in Tony's link might be useful.

Hopefully Adept or Lobo may be able to give some further advice.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Tony on May 29, 2003, 23:59: I think you can have problems flashing a new BIOS if in the middle of doing it you have a power cut.

But Adept will be able to tell you more about the potential pit falls of Bios flashing. I'm as thick as Simon but just a bit braver or maybe more foolhardy ;D In that I have flashed motherboard Bios's three times and Graphics cards Bios's three or four times, and experianced no problems whatsoever.

PS: Getting out of bed in a morning carries a risk slight though it may be. There are only two things in life guarenteed to happen your death, and your government will lie to you ;) ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on May 30, 2003, 00:44: Joudi,je ne sais pas ou mon repost a toi est maintenant.J'ecrit un repost pour ton joli mots pour moi le dernier matin a douze heures et demi,mais il est disparaitre :(
Maintenant tu sais que ma francaise n'est ce pas tres bon mais j'aime parle francais et j'espere fais de progres quelque jour :)
Je sais seulement les mots ordinaire et j'espere que tu compris que je dis :-*

I still think that you should have a look at the procedure for updating your BIOS as you may find it a lot easier than you think and you never know it may just fix the fault,just dont go past the point of no return if you dont feel happy about it :-*
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Simon on May 30, 2003, 09:09: Yes, the chances are that flashing your BIOS would not cause a problem, providing you have the correct update, and follow the instructions to the letter. I'm just advising caution as, like myself, Joudi hasn't attempted it before.

Then again, it can't be that difficult if Tony managed it! ;) ;D ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Adept on May 30, 2003, 09:29: These days, flashing the BIOS is made as simple as possible by motherboard manufacturers.

I the old days ::) BIOS updates were fraught with danger. Even having the wrong version of DOS could upset some flashing programs :o resulting in dead motherboards.

I have never used the MSI utility that Tony mentioned, but it looks to be almost foolproof ;)

Sandra, tu est :clever: ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Tony on May 30, 2003, 10:34: Quote
Quote
Quote from: Simon Then again, it can't be that difficult if Tony managed it! ;) ;D ;D [/quote

Quote from: Adept I have never used the MSI utility that Tony mentioned, but it looks to be almost foolproof ;) [/quote

And I put it to the test ;D

PS. You could always play it ulta safe and wear a condom whilst you do it, but where's the fun in that? ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on May 30, 2003, 13:59: Quote from: Tony on May 30, 2003, 10:34

PS. You could always play it ulta safe and wear a condom whilst you do it, but where's the fun in that? ;D

Glad you said a condom there Tony and not a "French letter" ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on May 31, 2003, 19:38: Hi everybody,
Yes, I've got some courage at last to start the procedure for the Live Update of my MSI. But I want to be sure of everything I'm doing. That'll be better than making a serious mistake. So , I decided to ask more help from Tony (espicially) and others (in general). Here I'm sending more details about my BIOS:

BIOS properties   
BIOS Type   Award Modular
Award BIOS Type   Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG
Award BIOS Message   W6382M7 V1.11 110501 MEDIONPC 16:46:00
System BIOS Date   11/05/01
Video BIOS Date   10/18/01
   
BIOS Manufacturer   
Company Name   Phoenix Technologies Ltd.
Product Information   http://www.phoenix.com/en/products/default.htm

Following the steps correctly, I arrived to step number 10. So I made the choice:

O "Live BIOS" And that was the result:

MSITM Live BIOSTM Version: 3.38.000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MSITM Live BIOSTM found No Available Version from MSI Server.
Check Supported BIOS List

So, I don't know if it'll be good to continue the other proposed elements. That's what is proposed:

O "Live DRIVER" (It's available)

O "Live VGA BIOS" (Not available)

O "Live VGA DRIVE" (There are two choices). I don't know which one must be applied in my situation. The two choices are those:

MSITM Live VGA DriverTM Version: 3.38.000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please Select and Click the button on the right to download and update the version online.

Search Results: Update Date: 2003/4/2
Item Name NVIDIA Update
Current Ver. 1240 Online Ver. 4107 (Release Version) Size 14.88MB

Item Name NVIDIA Update
Current Ver. 1240 Online Ver. 4230 (Beta Version) Size 14.48MB

O "Live UTILITY" (There are eight choices). Which I must choose? They are the following:

MSITM Live UtilityTM Version: 3.38.000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please Select and Click the item to download and update the version online.

MSI PC Alert 4 Update Date: 2003/05/08
Item Name MSI PC Alert 4
Current Ver. Unknown Online Ver. 4.0.5.0 Size 2.01MB
Notes Hardware Monitor utility

MSI i-Speeder
Item Name MSI i-Speeder
Current Ver. Unknown Online Ver. 1.1 Size 750KB
Notes Speed up Cable Modems and XDSL.

MSI SecureDoc
Item Name MSI SecureDoc
Current Ver. Unknown Online Ver. 1.13E2 Size 851KB
Notes SecureDoc is a program that could allow you to encrypt the files easily.

MSI InfoView XP
Item Name MSI InfoView XP
Current Ver. Unknown Online Ver. 1.750 Size 1.14MB
Notes System information viewer.

MSI DMI Browser
Item Name MSI DMI Browser
Current Ver. Unknown Online Ver. 2.4.60.0 Size 965KB
Notes Browser DMI information.

MSI WMI Info
Item Name MSI WMI Info
Current Ver. Unknown Online Ver. 1.1.1.1 Size 678KB
Notes System Information Browser with Windows Management Instrumentation.

MSI LockBox
Item Name MSI LockBox
Current Ver. Unknown Online Ver. 1.63B1 Size 1.10MB
Notes A security program designed for the Windows user.

MSI PasswordKeeper
Item Name MSI PasswordKeeper
Current Ver. Unknown Online Ver. 1.0 Size 958KB
Notes PasswordKeeper will make sure you never forget the password of mail accounts, web sites, secure files etc.

Thanks a lot. Any advice will be wellcome.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: lobo on June 01, 2003, 10:11: @joudi
Problems with a floppy drive are unlikely to be corrected by flashing the BIOS my friend; it is my advice not to do it until you have sorted the problem first

You flash the BIOS by using the floppy drive, if the drive fails during the flash you can say goodbye to the motherboard.

If you have tried a new floppy and a new cable then it is more likely the motherboard has developed a fault and you should be considering that possiblity first

Brian ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on June 01, 2003, 13:11: Thanks a lot Brian (Lobo).

Your advice is interesting. I'll see if there'll be other ideas from other friends to be taken in consideration.

If so, as you say and as I thought, I still have those two options: :-\

1 - Or it's a problem in the motherboard.

2 - Or the electric alimentation connection has a problem (which doesn't come to the player from the motherboard but from the electric power) which I didn't yet try.

I am going to connect the player with another electric power this afternoon and hope it works.

Of course it will not appear to me immediately. I have to use the driver many times and sometimes many days. If the result is positive, I'll let you all know.

Thanks to all
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on June 01, 2003, 14:17: :-[ :-[ :-[

Well, it seems to me that there is no hope.

I've just changed the connection to another electric wire without any positive result.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on June 01, 2003, 17:22: Just a thought probably directed more at Adept,Bat or Lobo than the rest of us but anyone who has tried it please advise :-*

In Si Soft Sandra theres is a "Burn in test" facility to test components by subjecting them to almost a destruction test,(from how I understood it),which I think is designed to show up any existing or potential weakness in the system.
Has "Aida" which I think Joudi has installed got that feature?
Does it do what I think it does?
Would that test for a problem that would confirm a motherboard fault?
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Adept on June 01, 2003, 18:49: I use PC Check and that has a Floppy Controller test which can be used to diagnose this type of problem.

It would be worth checking that AIDA has a similar facility.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Clive on June 01, 2003, 19:58: I've just taken a look and AIDA doesn't appear to have that facility.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: lobo on June 01, 2003, 21:55: @joudi

Full instructions for flshing your bios

I will email you the flash file

If the PC won?t boot after flashing (Make this floppy first)
?   Make a bootable floppy disk
?   Copy the Award flash utility & BIOS file to the said floppy disk
?   Create an autoexec.bat with "awdfl535 biosfilename" in the content e.g. awdfl535 a619mj21.bin
?   Boot up system with the said floppy (it will take less than 2 minutes before screen comes out)
?   Re-flash the BIOS & reboot.

Procedure for flashing BIOS FAT file system
1.   Check your BIOS for BIOS FLASH Protection & DISABLED it, some boards have this function.
For Example:
K7N420 Pro (MS-6373) - BIOS setup/Integrated Peripherals/BIOS Protect/Disabled

2.   Know Your model number
a. Open your case and look for the MS-XXXX number on the motherboard between the PCI slots, also check the version number that is written there as well. (some motherboards are named like K7T Turbo, make sure you have the right version number)
b. Boot up your system & take a look at the top left screen during POST, you should see something like "W6373MS v2.1 122101" This means the board is MS-6373 with BIOS version 2.1
Hint : Many systems are clearing this message very fast, the bios version is then unreadable, you can either press "PAUSE" or disable the "Quick Boot" in the BIOS setup.

3.   Download the BIOS that matches your motherboard AND version number (some motherboards are named like K7T Turbo, make sure you have the right version number). BIOS can be found according to the CPU type of your board like if your CPU is Intel P4 478 type then look here.
if you cannot find the BIOS that matches your board, try here

4.   Extract the BIOS-archive that you have downloaded by double clicking to c:\test

5.   Boot your system from a Win98 or WinME boot-floppy.
How to make boot floppy in case your don't have it ready:
For Win9X, You can type [C:\ format a:/s] from the DOS prompt.
For WinMe, You can make a boot floppy from control panel--> add/remove program-->make boot floppy. Remove autoexec.bat & config.sys file if there's any.
For Win2000, there's no way to make boot floppy, so you have to either use Win9X or WinME boot floppy.
For WinXP, you can make a DOS boot disk. Go to Your Computer, right click drive A:, select Format, select copy system files.

6.   When you get the A:\ prompt, type the following sequence:
C: <enter>
cd\test <enter>
C:\test> awdfl783m w6330vms.320 <enter>
(w6330vms.320 refers to BIOS file, this will depend on the board model)
(to save or not to save old BIOS is the user's decision)

7.   Reboot your system when prompted
None FAT file systems i.e. XP and NTFS file system
1.   Check your BIOS for BIOS FLASH Protection & DISABLED it, some boards have this function.
For Example:
K7T266 Pro (MS-6380) -BIOS setup/chipset setup/BIOS protection/disabled

2.   Know Your model number
a. Open your case and look for the MS-XXXX number on the motherboard between the PCI slots, also check the version number that is written there as well. (some motherboards are named like K7T Turbo, make sure you have the right version number)
b. Boot up your system & take a look at the top left screen during POST, you should see something like "A6380MS v1.7 122101" This means the board is MS-6380 with BIOS version 1.7
Hint : Many systems are clearing this message very fast, the bios version is then unreadable, you can either press "PAUSE" or disable the "Quick Boot" in the BIOS setup.

3.   Download the BIOS that matches your motherboard AND version number (some motherboards are named like K7T Turbo, make sure you have the right version number). BIOS can be found according to the CPU type of your board like if your CPU is Intel P4 478 type then look here
if you cannot find the BIOS that matches your board, try here

4.   Extract the file you have downloaded to a floppy (not the win ME/98 startup floppy) by double clocking the file in windows mode and supplying the path a:\

5.   Boot the computer using a windows ME or windows 98 startup disk. It must be one of these! A plain boot disk will not be good enough.
If you do not have Windows ME or 98 to create the floppy you can make one on a friend's computer or download a self creating copy from a website such as www.bootdisk.com.
6.   Once the computer has started booting from the disk an option menue will apeare on the screen with several options.
Please select the option to boot with CDROM support and press the enter key.

7.   When boot is done there will be a message on the screen showing :"Diagnostic tools were successfully loaded to drive" followed by a single letter.
This letter is the leter assigned to the RAMDRIVE. This RAMDRIVE is a virtual drive in the system memory and can be accessed and controlled like any other drive with DOS commands such as:
MD - Make Directory
Copy - copy a file
Deleate - Deleate a file
There is one important difference which is that being in the system memory this drive is wiped once the computer is restarted or shut down.

8.   Replace the startup floppy with the one containing the flash utility and bios ROM files previously extracted in windows
9.   Copy the 2 files to the RAMDRIVE by using the DOS command copy.
Here is an example, in this example the flash utility is AWFL814B.EXE ,the ROM file is w6373nms.220 and the RAMDRIVE letter assignment is D
copy awfl814b.exe d:\
copy w6337nms.220 d:\
10.   Change the current working directory to the RAMDRIVE root directory, with the example case of the RAMDRIVE being drive D this is simply done with the command d:
11.   Execute the flash utility with the ROM file as a command line argument, with this example:
awfl814b w6373nms.220
If you wish to save the current bios you must specify the full path a:\filename. Specifying only a file name will save the bios to the RAMDRIVE which will be wiped after restarting the computer and the file will not be saved.
a:\bios.old is an example of the correct way to save the bios.
12.   Reboot your system when prompted.
13.   If your system doesn't boot after you flashed, please refer to the BIOS recovery method as described.

Brian ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on June 02, 2003, 00:42: Thanks Lobo,
Well, I found these informations on one of the pages of "MSI" reflashing the BIOS.

I think it's too complicated for me. I'll see if I can find someone arround me who can help me, because I don't like to destroy my motherboard by cerain bad mistake.

If someone has an idea for me to make a test for my computer or my motherboard by the help of an interesting program which can detect the problems by itself, and show a report about it,... please let me know!!!

Thank you
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on June 02, 2003, 02:48: Is this the program that you meant Adept?

http://www.eurosoft-uk.com/pc_check.htm

If it is there is an evaluation copy that can be downloaded,(hopefully it will not be too limited in its capabilities and will allow you to check the Floppy and its controller at least Joudi).
Just click on DOWNLOADS and it will take you to the page where you can get it from :-*
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Adept on June 02, 2003, 09:18: Yep, that's it Sandra. I didn't know there was a demo version :-[ :)
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: lobo on June 02, 2003, 12:26: After reading through all the posts on this subject I think some of us are getting confused.

The tests on a floppy drive would indeed find a faulty controller as that is part of and onboard a floppy drive, BUT ?I Got another new floppy disk player, Sony, like the original. The problem is still there.? that rules out the floppy drive and cable and power to the drive, unless I have missed something. !!!

I am now not convinced that the problem is with the floppy or the motherboard but with the configuration of the system ?I like to remind that I have on my computer two XP systems separated on two hard disks? are the ?separate? XP installations set to dual boot or do you tell the PC which hard drive to boot from in BIOS?

If the PC will boot from a floppy then that would indicate that the BIOS has detected the drive and that it is working at that point, if XP crashes (freezes) when attempting to access the floppy the that indicates a system problem rather that a motherboard problem.

I await further comments with interest

Brian :lol:

Just a thought, If it has a VIA chipset download the latest VIA 4-in-1 drivers and install them :o
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Tony on June 02, 2003, 17:04: joudi,

sorry I'm late getting back to you [been busy]

Here is the info I got when I connected to the Live Bios feature, as you can see my current version was 5.60 and latest is 5.70

MSITM Live BIOSTM    Version: 3.38.000

MS-6380 (KT3 Ultra2, KT3 Ultra, K7T266 Pro2-A)
Please Select and Click the button on the right to download and update the version online.
Search Results:
Item Name    MS-6380    Update    

Current Ver.    5.60    Online Ver.    5.70    Size    530KB
Notes    1. This is AMI BIOS release.
2. This BIOS fixes the following problems of the previous version:
-Support AMD Barton XP3000+ (FSB333) CPU (For KT3 Ultra2 Only)
-Add "CPU Halt Command Detection" item in the BIOS Setup.
-Fixed ATI 8500 AGP card cannot be used.
3. 2003/02/24

So I followed the download and flashing procedure and as you can see on checking 'Live Update' again I get this message. I did not need to upgrade to the latest version, I just did it so as to let you see it works.

MSITM Live BIOSTM    Version: 3.38.000

MS-6380 (KT3 Ultra2, KT3 Ultra, K7T266 Pro2-A)
Please Select and Click the button on the right to download and update the version online.
Search Results:
Item Name    MS-6380    Update    

Current Ver.    5.70    Online Ver.    5.70    Size    530KB
Notes    1. This is AMI BIOS release.
2. This BIOS fixes the following problems of the previous version:
-Support AMD Barton XP3000+ (FSB333) CPU (For KT3 Ultra2 Only)
-Add "CPU Halt Command Detection" item in the BIOS Setup.
-Fixed ATI 8500 AGP card cannot be used.
3. 2003/02/24
Your BIOS is the same or newer than what we provided. You do not have to update it.

But it would not appear 'MSITM Live BIOSTM found No Available Version from MSI Server.
Check Supported BIOS List ' means it ain't that straight forward for you !!!!! best leave it alone for now. regards the other 'utilities' I have downloaded most of them as I found them useful.

Lobo is clued up unlike me :) so follow his advice, like he says to flash your Bios you need a stable floppy drive and that you ain't got mate. Have you swopped you drive and cable into another PC and vice a versa to check they are OK ?
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on June 03, 2003, 00:23: Thanks Tony for all the informations that you've provided.
Answering your question: No, I did not swap my driver and cable to an other PC but I've used for my PC itself another driver (new) and an other cable (new too).

Brian:

It's good to try all possibilities. What you are thinking of, could be very interesting. "THE CONFIGURATIONS". That's why I decided to provide some details about that for my PC. Here they are:

Disk 1 Active Primary
Disk 2 None Primary

_________________________________

Standard CMOS Features:

IDE Primary Master ST 360020A
IDE Primary Slave IDE DVD-ROM 16X
IDE Secondary Master CW 038D ATAPI CD-R/RW
IDE Secondary Slave WDC.WD 400 BB-00DEAO

Drive A 1.44 M, 3.5 in
Drive B None

Video EGA/VGA
Halt On No Errors
____________________________

Advanced BIOS Features:

External Cache Enable
CPU L2 Cache ECC Checking Enable
Quick Power On Self Test Enable
First Boot Device Floppy
Second Boot Device CD ROM
Third Boot Device HDD-0
Boot Other Device Enable
Swap Floppy Drive Disable
Boot Up Floppy Seek Disable
Boot Up Numlock Status On
Gate A20 Option Fast
Tympatic Rate Setting Diable
Security Option SetUp
IOAPIC Mode Enable
OS Select For DRAM > 64 MB Non-OS 2
Video BIOS Cacheable Disabled
______________________

Well, when I put the computer on, it gives me the choice between the first DISK (C) and the second DISK (D) during 30 seconds. If I don't choose one of them, it starts automatically the principal Boot (C). I remind that every separated hard disk (C & D) has separated Windows XP installed on it.

If there is any modification on these configurations to be made, thanks for telling me.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on June 03, 2003, 00:51: The only thing I can see Joudi is that you have "Boot other device" enabled,I think with 3 to go at first,that is the floppy,cd rom amd hard drive that that would be better off setting it to disable although it probably wont matter as it will boot off the hard drive first unless you have a bootable floppy or CD in when you start up.
For a quicker boot up I would set it as first boot floppy,or even HDD 0 as you can always change it to boot from floppy or cd if needed any time for a specific function.
Your IDE drives are a little unusual to me too but I dont think that that would affect the problem you have with the floppy.I have my hard drives usually set as primary master and primary slave and the dvd/cd rom as secondary master and the cd writer as secondary slave,although as Lobo points out in a different thread its sometimes better for the cd rom and writer to be on different ide cables for better data transfer. I had heard that doing it that way slows the hard drive down but no doubt Lobo will explain it better later.
I think that I would definately have your second hard drive set as a master though if you keep it on the secondary IDE and not as a slave on it.
The reason its asking for which device within 30 seconds is becaquse you have it as a dual boot,( why do you have XP on twice? I know some people like an alternative OS installed but I have never heard of anyone having two the same).
Doing it that way means that all your programs have to be doubled up or will only work after booting into the other XP setup ???

Edited to add :
Did you see this in Hookstars list of lists post by the way,it had this link to BIOS information Joudi which you may find useful :-*

http://lists.gpick.com/pages/BIOS_Information.htm
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Scrumpy-Jack on June 03, 2003, 03:30: Hi JOUDI

Just looking through you're list . I see it says :

BOOT UP FLOPPY SEEK : DISABLED

Might be worth a try setting that too ENABLED

Hope you get it sorted 8)

Cheers

Scrumpy-Jack :)
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: lobo on June 03, 2003, 22:25: @Joudi
I can see nothing in your setup that would make your floppy misbehave my friend, I think you are just going to have to put up with the problem until it either solves itself or the board fails, the floppy drive is not used a lot on my PC I write all my bits of documents and data to a CD-R its cheaper and more reliable any way

Brian ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on June 04, 2003, 15:13: Just to confuse things a little ;)

Has anyone considered IRQ conflicts at all for Joudis problem ?
I have just been reading some stuff about floppy problems and came across this :

Resource conflicts can manifest themselves in several different ways. Some conflicts can be very easy to recognize; others can be extremely difficult to find and correct, because they manifest themselves indirectly, or through symptoms that may not seem to have anything to do with the device causing the problem. Here are some of the ways that resource conflicts manifest themselves. Some of these may be consistent and repeatable, while others may be intermittent:

System hangs or lockups, particularly while using a peripheral device.
(Memory) parity errors on parity-enabled systems.
Noise or other problems from sound cards.
Junk being printed on your printer.
The mouse pointer hanging and refusing to move, or moving in a stuttering fashion.
Error messages from Windows 95, messages about the PC not operating at maximum performance, or the system dropping to "Safe Mode" or "MS-DOS Compatibility Mode".
Errors and crashes of applications for no apparent reason.
As you can see, some of these obviously point to a resource problem, but many do not. For example, system crashes can be caused by many non-resource-related factors. If your mouse works until you try to use your modem, well, you can probably figure out what the problem is, or at least where to start looking. In general, if you just added a new peripheral to your PC and a resource conflict is indicated, the new device is almost certainly involved somehow.

Tip: If the list of example problems above seems similar to a list of computer viruses symptoms, that's probably because it is. It is not uncommon for a PC that appears to have a resource conflict problem to really be suffering from a virus. Make sure you always check for viruses as the first step in debugging any PC problem.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I dont know if that will help or not :-*
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: lobo on June 04, 2003, 16:12: @Sandra my dear

You dont get IRQ conflicts in DOS and that is when his drive sometimes dont work!!!

@Scrumpy-Jack
The default setting for boot floppy seek is disabled my friend

Brian ;D ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on June 04, 2003, 16:46: Well I am even more confused now ???
I thought that XP didnt use DOS as such and its happening when XP is already running not on his boot up which I think does use DOS :-\
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: lobo on June 04, 2003, 17:01: @Sandra

"Answering Lobo: Yes, it does boot from floppy...but the problem also happens there sometimes. So I have to make many tries (sometimes) to make it work."

You will realy have to concentrate Sandra (Late night?)

There is a cut down version of DOS incorporated in XP and W2k which allows a minimum of functions.

Brian ;D ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on June 04, 2003, 17:10: You know me Brian,theres no such thing in my vocabulary as an early night ;D

The thing I was concentrating on was his original post that included this Brian:

Quote
As I don't use floppy disk so often, I didn't notice the problem and was not sure of it till after the end of the garrantee of my computer. It's still new, PC AMD Athlon 1600, Windows XP. Now the problem happens more often than before: when I use the floppy disk it causes the total freezing of the computer. The mouse doesn't move anymore and nothing works anymore. Everything stops. Only the page which was on the screen stays there. Till I Stop totally the computer and restart it. Sometimes I have to restart it again to be able to use the floppy disk.

I think that this is more indicative of the fault isnt it and a more major problem as he can get around the booting from floppy by booting from the cd as you said earlier providing he has the necessary bootable cds to do so.
Am I still totally wrong about the possibilities of IRQ conflicts in this case ???

Maybe I will have to call round for more private one to one lessons again soon :-*
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on June 04, 2003, 17:26: Hi everybody,
Thanks a lot for everyone who participated in giving comments or answers for my problem. You are really good friends and very nice to me.

But at the same time I'd like to ask all other friends of our forum to execuse me. Those who open and see my problem every day in front of their eyes. They may be fed up of this subject. (As if there is only my problem in this world). To those who may be felt like that, I want to tell them that I'm really very sorry.

It's true that I like all to work for my matter (and I'm not fed up till I find the solution). But I feel that it's not fair to do it. Don't you see that till now my subject has hit the record of views and the answers in this forum?...

Please, please excuse me. If you like to stop caring for me, I'll not be upset with you. You did and are doing enough and more than enough. Thanks a lot and sorry again.

:-\ :-* :thanks:
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: lobo on June 04, 2003, 17:31: OK
Right click on My Computer, click on Device Manager, Right click on Mouse and pointing Devices and select properties, select Resources Tab

This will tell you what IRQ the mouse is using and if there are any conflics

Brian ;D ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on June 04, 2003, 17:43: Quote from: joudi on June 04, 2003, 17:26

Please, please excuse me. If you like to stop caring for me, I'll not be upset with you. You did and are doing enough and more than enough. Thanks a lot and sorry again.

Rome wasnt built in a day Joudi(an old english saying in case you havent heard it before,which means that somethings arent always finished very quickly,but we do try and resolve problems as soon as possible ;) )
This forum prides itself on never giving up as long as you are prepared to try what is suggested and let us know what happened after you tried it :-*
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Simon on June 04, 2003, 18:33: It's not boring at all Joudi - we love an ongoing topic! ;D ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Clive on June 04, 2003, 18:54: Joudi, our philosophy is that if a member of our forum has a problem then we all want to help solve it. That is the main reason we set pc-pals up. We don't get bored and we don't give in easily. I know that I speak for everyone when I say that we love having you here.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on June 04, 2003, 19:00: Thanks a lot Sandra and Simon for your patience and your nice feeling.

{ "Answering Lobo: Yes, it does boot from floppy...but the problem also happens there sometimes. So I have to make many tries (sometimes) to make it work." }

Very sorry, I gave that answer before because my problem was repeated many times and in many cases. So it put in my memory that feeling which - I can't now confirm 100%. It might be wright. But I'm not sure. I don't like to make any confusion. Of course I'm talking here about "Booting from floppy".

So, I wanted to retry it a little before by using the two floppys of "Partition Magic 7.0". It did boot very nicely. I repeated that many times...There is no problem at all.

Something else:
It happened to me many times (I don't remember, since fixing two HD's Or two separated Windows XP) that, sometimes, while putting my PC under electric tension, it does stop completly on the oppening page on the step:

" Detecting IDE Drives... "

That happens if there is a floppy or not, if there is a CD or not.

So, I have to cut the electric tension and start the computer again to make it work.

Does that have any relation to the problem?

Thanks a lot.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: joudi on June 04, 2003, 19:03: A very BIG THANK to clive too, and all others who feel in that way.
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: lobo on June 04, 2003, 19:46: Hi Joudi
If you thought we did not care about you and your problem that is incorrect, some of our conversations with other members are some times a bit of fun but we all try to help if we can,

Is is possable that the problem is in the BIOS and how it "see's" your drives, try altering the possitition of you drives i.e. put one hard drive as a master on IDE 0 and the second drive as a slave on IDE 0, or both as masters on IDE 0 and IDE 1 (with your CD-ROM drives as slaves)

Rember the answer from me will never be "Je m'en fous!"

Brian ;D
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Adept on June 04, 2003, 19:48: Quote from: Clive on June 04, 2003, 18:54

Joudi, our philosophy is that if a member of our forum has a problem then we all want to help solve it. That is the main reason we set pc-pals up. We don't get bored and we don't give in easily. I know that I speak for everyone when I say that we love having you here.

Hear hear Clive! :)
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Sandra on June 04, 2003, 20:01: Its looking more like a BIOS or motherboard fault isnt it.
Would there be any point in clearing the CMOS and starting afresh with loading bios defaults to see if that helped guys?
Title: Re:Floppy Disk Player
Post by: Adept on June 04, 2003, 20:04: Reading back through the thread, I'm convinced that Lobo is right, there is a fault on the motherboard.

Clearing the BIOS isn't going to help :(