PC Pals Forum
Technical Help & Discussion => Self Building, Upgrading & General Hardware Help => Topic started by: Tony on July 25, 2003, 13:07
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Hi there,
I friend of mine had a Tiny PC that went walkabout [a blessing really ::)] it was based on a Pentium 3 450Mhz CPU with 64MB of PC100 memory.
Anyway I'm popping a Novatech Motherboard Bundle into a new Midi ATX case, and also adding a 52x24x52 CD-RW drive.
The Mobo is based on a Via Appollo KT400 chipset and comes complete with a AMD XP2400+ CPU, and a 512MB DDR PC2700 333Mhz memory moduale installed. A nice Mobo bundle, assembled and tested prior to despatch, worth a look at £148 http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MBB-KT424B (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MBB-KT424B)
They had 15 in stock Thursday morning, at Midnight they had 12 left so I ordered one. Today 2.00pm Friday they have only 4 left, so fill your wellies quick. ;D
Loaded with W2K Pro.........mmmmmmmmmmmmmm .........lovely
:gofor:
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Well it's 4 o'clock and they are all gone, better luck next time. ;)
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It looked ok Tony,any idea whos motherborad they use as I cant see them making their own from scratch?
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It looked ok Tony,any idea whos motherborad they use as I cant see them making their own from scratch?
I don't have a clue Sandra, but I reckon they must be alright as they seem to shift alot. Just been looking at their custom built configerator, I notice the AMD choice starts at XP2600+, and there are two Mobo choices an Abit and a MicroStar board. Maybe Microstar make them, but I'm only guessing. I have a MicroStar in my PC I built last September, might be able to spot some build simularities?
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Using one of those bundles, I'm considering building another PC, for possible re-sale, or maybe for a friend, at cost. I'm just doing it for fun really, and for the experience. I may even keep it a while to do some experiments on, so I can re-format at will without the hassle of protecting data.
What do you think of this potential shopping basket? This is for a basic home machine. Nothing too fancy.
Oh, and apart from the monitor and speakers, is anything missing?
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Probably ok Simon,why a 56K PCI modem though as if you keep it yourself you dont need it and if you sell it on they may not need it either ?
As its a 133 board wouldnt you be better getting a 133 hard drive to optimise it ?
Has that board got onboard LAN,if not stick an ethernet card in it in place of the modem and network it to your other PC and have a play around with that,that way if you want to clear yours up by wiping it at anytime you have another working pc to play with and get info on :doggie:
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Good point about the hard drive, Sandra. My intention would be to sell the PC on, rather than keeping it myself, although, as I said, it would be handy to have a play about first, without worrying about losing data.
Bearing the saleability aspect in mind, I would not expect most people would need networking facilities, but that could obviously be added afterwards. The 56K modem is really a standard piece of kit that most people would need. Even having BB, I still sometimes use mine if Pipex goes down. Again, if a buyer wanted broadband, they could upgrade it themselves.
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Well the components came yesterday afternoon, so I had it built after tea. The motherboard is made by Matsonic !!!! Chinese naturally. But better than paying Compaq prices for Chinese gear with a Compaq logo on it, or is it ;)
First thing I noticed was a big sticker over the orange 8xAGP slot. Do not install 3.3v AGP4X VGA card because it may course the malfunction [honest chinese translation] I'm thinking, ummmmm that no name TNT 16MB AGP card I dug out of my Mates Tiny lump of crap, will it work on this board. It worked OK in the AGP slot of my MSI KT333 MOBO, but low and behold wonder no more, the thing wont fit the slot. Anyway to test it out I popped in one of my Matrox dual head PCI cards, no probs. Then on the web and ordered a Radeon 7500 64MB from Dabs, should arrive tommorrow.
Next prob finding drivers for the external modem my Mate brought minus driver CD. Found some on the web using my own PC popped em on a floppy and tried em in the new PC. Guess what, the floppy is knackered, swop this swop that, yep it's knacked. I phoned my mate up, did you know your floppy drive is knackered....what's a floppy drive.....right he doesn't need one of those then. Anyway he has a nice new 52x24x52 CD-RW. Finally get the right driver at the second attempt for the modem.
Testing the USB ports, one on the case front works and one doesn't, funny that I noticed a connector half on half off as I was assembling the board. Talking of case quality Novatechs budget Midi ATX offering with 2 front USB and a 350 watt PSU [what attracted me in the first place] cost £29 odd. I bet this chinese firm also make razor blades, using the same gauge steel ::) And screws to assembale !!! 32 bloody things by the time you have fit every thing. So I'm sticking to my Suntek [German built] cases in future, OK they are £46 but you only have two screws to screw in during the complete assembly of the PC...oh and one nurled screw if you want to use it.
So we have a tinny case,incompatible graphics card, knacked floppy, and an iffy USB port, not the end of the world is it.
But it gets worst, I check the CPU temp and it is running at 66 Deg C, my AMDXP2000+ plus runs at 44 Deg C. I feel the heatsink, not hot at all, so on the phone to Novatech.
Nice guy, reckons if I'm happy to fit another heatsink and fan it should be OK. So ones in the post tonight first class delivery, well I'm waiting for the Radeaon from Dabsso no big deal. And if it still runs hot, Novatech will deliver an new bundle the next day. anybody tried making phone contact with Dabs ? it's nigh impossible...see their E-Traders... not phone traders :-X
So half my probs come from trying to re use second hand parts, not recomended if the source is unkown. And whilst I would not buy another cheap case thats me, the jury is still out regarding Novatech Mobo Bundles, I'll keep you posted.
Oh an observation, on my MSI Mobo the CPU temp cut out range is ajustable in 5 deg increments from 70C. upto 95C. On this Matsonic Mobo same 5 degree increments, but the range is 60.C upto 70.C.......funny old world. The Mobo looks fine, and I have run the PC all day, temp sticking at 66.C with a 4 deg C stop loss protecting it ;D Infact I'm connected to PC-Pals with it right now, so it might turn out fine after all ;D
Like Simon says..it's fun building PC's ::) ;) ;D
Tony
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Did the bundle include one of those things that guys dont/cant read Tony ( a manual,shouldnt they be called womanual as its only women that seem to read them) ?
If so I think its not very good as the specs on the website dont say which voltage of AGP card to use :doggie:
Incidentally Tony I was in Emit today and was debating whether to buy a P4 1.7 bare bones pc at £120.
It had a really nice case with front usb and audio and had a MSI 6534 v1 mobo which should take a 2.6 cpu at a later date once they have dropped to a more sensible price after the new Intel chips come on sale later in the year :-*
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Thanks for that report Tony. Sorry to hear you've had problems. Not problems, challenges, which is all part of the fun! I suppose sometimes, things can be just too cheap. :-\
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Did the bundle include one of those things that guys dont/cant read Tony ( a manual,shouldnt they be called womanual as its only women that seem to read them) ?
If so I think its not very good as the specs on the website dont say which voltage of AGP card to use :doggie:
Incidentally Tony I was in Emit today and was debating whether to buy a P4 1.7 bare bones pc at £120.
It had a really nice case with front usb and audio and had a MSI 6534 v1 mobo which should take a 2.6 cpu at a later date once they have dropped to a more sensible price after the new Intel chips come on sale later in the year :-*
:heehee: course there's a manual and a couple of cables, and a CD, could'nt tell you how informative it is though, maybe later when I've time to read it ;D Took some finding that MSI 6534, but there it was in the archives ::) though I suppose it would be considered cutting edge in Padhiam. ;D having said that £120 in a case, it's not bad.
Maybe I was being a bit harsh regards the case, I suppose it's par for the course in the budget department, just I've been spoilt with my Suntek http://www.suntek.co.uk/start.html (http://www.suntek.co.uk/start.html) I've a TH-651 just look under functions, and click on the individual, pictures for enlarged pictures of the layouts.
In fact the Yanks are thinking of putting engines in em and running em in Bagdad instead of Humvee's ;D
Simon,
As they say, it's all 'Grist to the Mill' I've had plenty brand name gear that has fallen over at the starting post. But I think I'll fit my own CPU heat sink and fan in future, and give that poor Chinese bloke a rest.
I thought Simon will be interested in how it's panning out with the kit, by the way the Novatech CD-RW was a Aopen branded writer.
Tony
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Thanks Tony, keep us posted! ;)
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This looks quite a nice case, Tony, and not a bad price:
http://www.redstore.com/fx/techinfo.php?itm_code=QTECAS009
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Yes Simon,
that case looks OK, but don't they all untill you feel the quality, mind you even if it's the same as the Novatech one quality wise, it's cheaper :)
Ok you know this already Simon, as week lmailed each other earlier, so this is for the benifit of the board.
About NovaTech bundles, remember the nice guy said, the replacement heat sink and fan will be with you tomorrow ........ my a*se it was. Where as Dabs.com, who incidentaly did not promise next day delivery , did deliver it next day, you can see what's coming I'll bet >:(
Anyway as I was waiting for the non existent delivery, I thought I would look at the USB front port problem, so I swopped the two front USB port cables around on the MoBo and the working /not working ports changed over. That means it is a problem with the Mobo, not the ports or their cabling,
That's it, whether the heatsink and fan turns up tomorrow, Novatech are getting that bundel back. I've pi**ed about with that board for two days now, and had to spend £41 on a graphics card I did not think I needed, so Novatech can credit my card for the bundle and arrange to pick it up.
And I will buy this board http://www.asrock.com/product/product_k7vt2.htm and an AMD XP2000+ 512MB 333Mhz crucial memory heatsink and fan http://www.thermaltake.com/products/heatsink/v10.htm and yes a new floppy drive from Dabs and I know I'll get it Friday morning before 10.00 am. It pans out the same price to the pound if you add the price of a floppy onto the Novatech cost. OK, a AMD XP 2000+ against 2400+ but all my mate does is surf the web, and his lad plas the odd game, so he will not notice the difference. Just lost confidence in Matsonic build quality, and unfortunately it has a knock on effect with Novathec in my eyes.
As you see I'm going to give another budget Mobo maker newcomer a go. But they are standing by their own brand name in the market place, so I expect better quality wise. OK, the board is a lower spec one than the Matsonic KT400 variant, but well up to the task in hand. Anyway I'm interested in comparing different motherboard maker packages.
As always I'll keep you posted,
Tony
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What price does it come to with that mobo and cpu Tony ?
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What price does it come to with that mobo and cpu Tony ?
What price does what come to Sandra, the Mobo, CPU, Memory, Heatsink and fan in relation to the £147 Novatech bundle ? £139
:-* I feel a, when I was in Emit.....coming on ;D ;)
PS: I had to get the plumber in to unblock my .co.uk email address, that file you sent, was still trying to download, even though I had dumped it through Mailwasher. :o
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Weeellll I was wondering why you dont have a look over :P
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Yes it would have been ideal really, as the only brief I had regards a replacement for the Tiny lump of crap, was 'Cheap' so no hard and fast spec to adhere too.
I might even just pop over for the fun of it, and to meet your lovely self. :-* ::)
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Well I will see if I can find the lovely version of myself if you let me know far enough in advance to let the pollyfilla set ::)
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Sandra,
the inside is more important than the outside, that goes for people as well as PC's ;D
Anyway, Dabs standard 1 to 3 day delivery service, came up trumps again, got it next day at 9.11am today, and all well packed and in good condition.
The ASRock board was easy to follow and install, happen as well because the 'manual' was all of 6 pages, those written in English that is, but enough to get bye on. No Bios settings or info on same. But once up and running you can load the supplied CD, which has a very good colour manual read via Acrobat reader,so good for those with iffy eyesight "cough"
And then there's the treat of the lovely young Taiwanese lady, resplendant in a skimpy metallic silver top, and matching mini skirt and thigh length boots, and showing her bare navel ;D She was explaining and pointing out all the important parts of the ASRock boards, I was all eyes......er... I ment ears ;D of course by the time your watching it, you have been succesfull, and if your not watching it...you have'nt.... a bit pointless really if you aint got a another PC to watch it on prior to build the one the boards intended for.
Anyway,for the AMD XP2000+ I tried out the Thermaltake heatsink and fan it's copper based and rated for AMDXP CPU's up to 3200+... £9.99....is that all it is !!!!! It is a lot smaller fan and heatsink than on my present board, or the one on the Matsonic Mobo bundle, but it does the job allright.
http://www.thermaltake.com/products/heatsink/v10plus.htm (http://www.thermaltake.com/products/heatsink/v10plus.htm)
Easy install and no movement on the CPU once fitted, unlike the one on the Matsonic Mobo. And unlike the CPU on the Matsonic Mobo bundle running at 66 C. this one runs at 44 C. with the Mobo registering [system temp] 35 C [ambient room temp 27 C.]
Now my existing PC and the new one are under the same desk, both with XP2000+ CPU's and the one with the extra 8cm intake and 8cm exhaust fans was running at CPU 42 C. and 35 C. so all in all I'm happy with the ASRock set up.
Verdict: you cannot beat putting your own Mainboard together, then you know it's done right, and where the heatsink and memory come from, the later being Crucial brand.
So the score is:
Matsonic Motherboard Bundle [mainland China} ZERO
ASRock home assembled Motherboard [Taiwan] a resounding TEN
;D ;D ;D
Mind you when you consider a XP2400+ @ £60, 512MB 333Mhz memory @ £65, and a HS/Fan ball park £10 = £135 it did not leave much left for a Mobo. The Matsonic board run out @ £12 against the ASRock at £29 when you consider the Matsonic bundle was £147, and you usually pay a premium for pre assembly. The premium paid with my Matsonic Bundle was 'it was crap' two seperate faults is not on, it speaks volumes regards quality control.
Tea Time
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Two things I did notice that where missing in the ASRock Bios setup, no S.M.A.R.T. Hard Drive monitoring, nor was there a CPU Critical Temperature Cut-Off,shame really. The Matsonic board had both of these, but unfortunatley the board was faulty [trying to report fairly]
Having said that, ASRock look a good budget board choice when considering components where the budget is restricted. Though I personally would rather pay that bit more when you consider every component in your PC connects into the Motherboard. And as an overall percentage of the cost of the PC, upping your Mobo budget allocation, wont as a rule break the bank.
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If it's not a silly question, Tony, where did you get the heatsink / fan from for £9.99?
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If it's not a silly question, Tony, where did you get the heatsink / fan from for £9.99?
Come on Simon, pay attention ;) Dabs.com here is the link (http://www.dabs.com/products/prod-search.asp?action=search&tid=751&mid=080&ob=price&stab=ref) I'll certainly buy that fan again [if it don't fall over ;D]
The one I have in my PC came from Novatech rated for up to XP 2.0 Ghz chips, cost me £11.75 last September link (http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?COL-FANCI)sorry no name or piccy [Novatech own brand]
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Thanks Tony. ::) I've just ordered one, which might give me the inclination to look for something to stick it on! ;)
I have to say, I don't find Dabs the easiest site to navigate, or find stuff on, which is probably why I've not dealt with them before. This will be a little test.
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Simon,
considering the choice of stock they carry, I find their site reasonably easy to follow ::) I use this (http://www.dabs.com/products/product-locator.asp?lstep=2&c_id=10) page as my start page. Take Motherboards for instance, there are 208 choices under that heading, just wish you could split the search to say AMD/Intel.
And their more information link regards individual products is more comprehensive than say Novatechs. Plus via that information box you get a direct link to the makers website, hence that Thermaltake spec sheet I posted.
One thing I have found after hitting the buy button at the check out, your order page stays on screen, with the message 'confirm changes' Hit it again and you will had bought the bugger twice ::) Of course if you read the screen it does say at the top Order Conformation But you know what it's like when your shopping for goodies, you can turn into a 'yes yes that's it, send it send it, button hitter instead of a page reader' ;D
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Two things I did notice that where missing in the ASRock Bios setup, no S.M.A.R.T. Hard Drive monitoring, nor was there a CPU Critical Temperature Cut-Off,shame really.
Well here I am quoting myself ::)... No I felt I should put the record straight. ASRock motherboards DO have CPU overheating protection built into their Mobo's its something called U-COP Universale CPU Overheating Protection, because I could not see it in the Bios, I thought funny that, no CPU protection......wrong.....again ;D
http://www.asrock.com/index_whybuyasrock.htm (http://www.asrock.com/index_whybuyasrock.htm)