PC Pals Forum
Technical Help & Discussion => Self Building, Upgrading & General Hardware Help => Topic started by: Solo on August 02, 2003, 16:00
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Ok here's the jist, when i switch my pc on for the first time in the day, it tend's to freeze up, also likes to reboot it's self, also when i try restarting sometimes it don't get a signal, after about 20 mins of doing this it will then run smooth as a button. I dunno if it's a hardware fault, if it is i will replace the part, but have no idea what one it could be :/ (Also this never happened till the day i installed XP)
Spec's
Amd 2600+
512 DDR Ram 3200
80 Gig Wd 8 meg cache Hdd
Gigabyte 7vaxp Motherbored.
Gforce 4 Ti4200
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Hi solo,
let's see till one of the experienced one show.
In the "start menu", have you set up your computer for many users "sessions"?
Perhaps it's better to wait the proffessionals.
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It's a single use pc, and i've reinstalled XP twice :/
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Hi Solo :welcome:
The freeze-up thing sounds like a problem with XP, but the restart problem does sound very much like a hardware fault :(
A couple of things you might want to try:-
- make sure your memory chips and PCI cards are correctly in place. Sometimes removing and re-installing cards and memory can stop random re-boots.
- Check that the processor fan is spinning freely.
- Your BIOS should contain information about the current CPU temperature. Let us know what it says so we can tell you if it is a bit high.
Hope this helps :)
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Adept.
Would it also give some clues in the EVENT Viewer, I know when I have troubles with XP thats the 1st place I look ;)
Hookstar
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Yes it probably would Hookstar. The trouble with XP is that the event log is never "clean" - there are always error messages don't really cause any critical problems. This makes it difficult to track down which error is the one that caused the problem.
Writing down the exact time a freeze-up occurred might help in this regard :)
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Yes I know what you mean adept.. but if Solo has loads of red Xs in there one of them must show the fault 8)
I clean mine out every 2 weeks.. scares the Preverbal out of me seeing all those red Xs in there :o
Hookstar
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Hi Solo, did you do a clean, new installation of XP, or did you install it as an upgrade from something else?
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Fresh install, 3td time actually, although i did notice that when i stripped pc down, cleaned it and rebuit in didn't crash for like a week. Mt cpu fan is fine and the temp is @ 41 now.
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Mt cpu fan is fine and the temp is @ 41 now.
Well that eliminates that as a possibility then :)
What power supply are you using Solo? Is it 300W or above?
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300 :)
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I also have a 300W PSU and I'm running a 2000XP which eats power so it can produce enough heat to heat 7 average UK homes every night ;D
What make/memory GeForce 4 Ti4200 have you got? Getting one for my birthday and want to know what you think of it :)
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good stable card, no problems with the lastest games, also it's "Creative"
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It seems strange that this started happening when you installed XP. Did you tinker with any hardware at all that day, Solo? I'm just wondering if one of the many 'services' XP has running in the background, might be fighting against something else, and causing problems? If you go into the Startup and Recovery screen, by right clicking My Computer, then Properties > Advanced > System Startup and Recovery > Settings, and disable the Automatic Restart function, you might then get an error message, instead of it rebooting, which may help with the diagnosis.
Just a thought. Probably way off track as usual! ;)
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I installed a new a sound card, but that was just before i installed XP, also when it freezes on first boot sometimes i reset / turn power off and i get no signal to monitor, also some times screen flickers, but after like 10 mins it's fine, i'm not sure if it could be the ram of the gfx card.
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Sorry it's taking so long to come up with an answer for you Solo. Sometime these things take a bit of time ...
You haven't overclocked your processor or graphics card have you? The AMD 2600+ should run at a clock speed of 2.13GHz, I think, with a bus speed of 266 / 333MHz.
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Does your motherboard have a VIA chipset in Solo?
It may be that if you get the latest 4 in 1 drivers for that then it may help.
I think that its more likely to be a motherboard/XP issue than the graphics card itself :doggie:
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Yup its got a VIA, (where can i get newest drivers) also it's not over clocked etc, what makes me think its my gfx card is when it freezes up, i hold power of to reset, repress power then i get no signal, have to shut down a wait a lil, and another thing it froze a fiar few times just now, when i rebooted i got a checksum error, had to press 1f to continue, now my dates are all messed.
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The only way to be certain that it's the graphics card is to try another one. Do you have a generous friend that could lend you one for a few minutes? ;)
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Well just found this on pc world's site
"If there is a fault with your product within 12 months of delivery (or other defect with your order), we will normally offer a prompt repair, exchange or refund. We will always offer you the choice of an exchange or refund if the fault occurs within 28 days of deliver"
gfx card is only 5 months old, and for the price i payed for it back then i can exhange it for alot better one :P
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whats strange tho, pc working fine now, after a few crahses
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You can get the latest Via 4 in 1 drivers here Solo :
http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=300
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dl links on it broked :(
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I assume that they will have them up and running again soon Sol,try them again tomorrow. :doggie:
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Is this the same as ..
http://www.video-drivers.com/companies/1112.htm
Hookstar
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Via drivers here http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2 (http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2)
4 in 1 drivers http://downloads.viaarena.com/drivers/4in1/VIAHyperion4in1448v.exe (http://downloads.viaarena.com/drivers/4in1/VIAHyperion4in1448v.exe)
and Gforce drivers here http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp (http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp)
Enjoy
Brian ;D
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Thats same as my post for the 4 in 1 Brian but the sites down where it takes you too :(
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Works ok for me Sandra :-*
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The initial link works for me then the one that that link takes you to does but the download from there doesnt work for me or Solo ???
Have you actually got it to the part where it will start a download Hookie,or just the download page ?
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Thats same as my post for the 4 in 1 Brian but the sites down where it takes you too :(
Modified my post with the 4 in 1 .exe site sandra http://downloads.viaarena.com/drivers/4in1/VIAHyperion4in1448v.exe (http://downloads.viaarena.com/drivers/4in1/VIAHyperion4in1448v.exe)
Brian ;D
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Well the link worked.. but I didnt try any down loads 8)
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Yes that bit works ok Hookie until you get to the final download bit then its page not displayed time :(
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Likes to reboot it's self
XP has a default setting that reboots itself when it encounters an error, to alter this, right click on the My Computer Icon, select Properties, click on the Advanced Tab then select Settings in Start up and Recovery. Make sure the tick box alongside Automatic restart is unticked then click OK and close,
Event Viewer, Open the Control Panel and select Administrative Tools, select Event Viewer and click on the System log, in here you will find items with a red X and the error message alongside it double click on an error and see if you can make out what the problem is
Brian ;D
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Yes that bit works ok Hookie until you get to the final download bit then its page not displayed time :(
Sandra
Just started the download from the 4 in 1 site no problems
Brian ;D
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Still wont work for me ???
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Just checked the site and its stoped downloading you will have to try agian later
Brian
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Hmmmmm
The machine reboots itself, but then it doesn't start (no signal)?!
I would definately say hardware problem since this is prebios!
Likely suspects:
Graphics Card
Mainboard
Memory
I've seen a lot of problematic CREATIVE graphics cards, and since thats still under warranty - lets hope thats the problem.
Always hard to test hardware on your own, but if you can borrow a friends card etc - test that out on your system...
good luck!
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I'd take a stab at the power supply being a bit low/noisy in the 5v department. Alternatively one of the smooting capacitors degrading slightly on the motherboard and introducing noise to the system.
If your graphic card is not getting enough power to initialise then you'll get the no-sync message. A lot of the currrent cards put a major drain on the power supply (had one two weeks ago that wouldn't boot up until changed PS).
Try removing the soundcard temporarily and seeing if that fixes the problem (as you would then be requiring less current).
This would also account for random lock up and reboots as it would affect the entire system (the K75SA boards are notorious for this).
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Update, got a new gfx card and it ain't the memory :/ anyway i could test parts?
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Could it be the PSU? althought that won't explain no signal/no boot at start :/
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Could it be the PSU? althought that won't explain no signal/no boot at start :/
It could actually. If the PSU is not giving the right voltage/current when the PC starts, the graphics card may not initialise correctly. This would cause you to get a no signal message on your monitor.
As Dack says, it may be worth reducing the load on your PCs PSU by removing some PCI cards temporarily. It's worth a try ;)
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I don't get a "no signal msg" just power comes on, fans etc start, nothing else from there
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Thats what happens :) The no signal message we've refered to is generated by the monitor when it hasn't got a picture to display (at least most monitors these days, others just refuse to come on).
When the computer is powered up it goes through several steps to check the machine out before you get to see the graphics card message (followed by the bios string and drive search etc.)
If any one of the pre-checks fail you usually get a beep code, indicating the fault, e.g. 1 long beep meaning no memory, 8 beeps meaning no video card detected (these are if you have an AMI bios) etc. If it just seems to lock then, in my experience, it's usually down to a component being detected correctly but failing when asked to do something (as it would then require more power.) This manifests itself as system lock ups where all the components seem to be working but nothing happens.
Do you hear anything (beep code wise) when trying to power up?
Another thing worth trying is running:
http://www.memtest86.com/
as it tends to identify dodgy memory and power supplies. Be aware it does take a while to run as its a very thorough test.
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Alot of the time in first boot where i say i have no signal, my pc comes on, power tuns etc, it don't turn monitor on (screen stays black) and it don't do the noise where it detects floppy, so it's as if pc is juts running, this problem doing my head in now :/ but after 10 or so mins, pc's fine
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Could it be that the graphics card is not seated properly, but after a period of use, the heat expansion causes the contacts to connect better? I know it would be an unlikely coincidence for it to happen with two gphx cards, but maybe there is dust in the slot, which is causing poor contact?
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My gfx card spec says it needs a 350 psu, but the older card didnt, and have the same prob, but could it be the psu?
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Sounds more and more like it.
Try to see if the problem occurs wihout the soundcard installed as that might give the 5v supply enough power to work correctly. If that is the case then it will probably either be:
1. The power supply needs replacing with a high spec or
2. The motherboard voltage regulators/smoothing capacitors are not up to the job and cannot handle the current required on switch on.
Put simply what happens is that there is only so much power the 5V supply can provide. If more current is required than can be supplied then the voltage drops. WHen the voltage drops then strange things start happening to computers.
e.g. power supply can provide 20 Amps at 5V = 100VA but the computer is trying to draw 25 Amps so the voltage drops to 4V (as 4 * 25 is 100).
The reason it would work after a while is that capacitors will become charged up and so there will be less power required on start up.
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this started happening out of the blue, before i made any changes to my pc, it worked fine for months, alothugh not sure when i installed sound which is pretty new, it's sound blaster 2
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The sound card removal is just a temporary check to confirm the fault. If the problem disappears when the card is out then it is likely to be a power issue. Alternatively try with a different power supply if you have one.
Power related problems do tend to just suddenly appear - the usual culprits tend to be high value capacitors or low value resistors. If your power supply was not up to the job of powering your graphics card then it would have put strain on the components (as it tried to deliver) and after a while one of the components would break down.
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Still does it with soundcard out, could any conflicts be causing it? or would u say psu
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Aneyone :/ ?
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Sorry Solo, I think everyone must be out enjoying the sun! I'm sure you'll get an answer this evening.
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Sorry Solo but I havent come across anything like this before :(
If you can get another PSU to try,preferably bigger than what you are using that would show if it was a supply problem.
It may just be the capacitors in the motherboard drying out so in that case it would need a new motherboard :(
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Sorry for delay in replying - been busy getting ready for my Trip to Dallas, TX tomorrow morning (its a complete dive).
The way I look at it is:
1. The second graphics card specifies a power supply greater than the one you have at present - so you need to upgrade the power supply anyways.
2. If the fault remains then it is likely to be a breakdown of some component on the motherboard and you would have needed to replace the power supply anyways (on account of the graphics card). This would only be for the graphics card issue.
For the random crashes and BSODs then.......
I've checked a few forums and the motherboard you have seems to have a highly colourful reputation :) http://hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/2367/
being one example.
One thing they mention on there is that there are issues with 400MHz memory. You need to press CTRL-F1 on boot up to set the memory speed as per a 333. You also need to set the Bios to optimal and not performance. The latest bios is version F13 and also seems to be the most stable.
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Hi Solo,
As I'm not Teachie, I'm in fact almost beginner. Since the begining I was thinking of a conflict on your hard disk.
You've answered Simon in one of your posts, to his question, if you did a fresh installation to the XP:
Fresh install, 3td time actually, although i did notice that when i stripped pc down, cleaned it and rebuit in didn't crash for like a week.
Well, excuse my english and my technic understanding. When you say that you did "Fresh install, 3 times", do you mean that 1 - You've wiped completely your hard disk and formated it again, and partitioned again also, and installed the XP in that principal and "Primary" partition? Or 2 - You've installed XP upon an other before it, and told the XP to format the partition where you wanted to install it?
In my opinion, if you've done the option number 2, and if nothing works with you of all suggestions that teachies are proposing, why don't you try to take option number 1, by completely wiping your hard disk? It might work!!!
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I've formated, reinstalled, I've formatted, remoeved the primary partition, then set it back up, also i've tried a different OS now.
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this also happens when pc been on for a bit :/ what would u say, MB or psu?
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I dont know if this will help or not Solo but if you get hold of a program called Si Soft Sandra it has a "Burn in wizard"
This is designed to stress the PC components to the limit to check for stability of the PC.
This is from the "What is" help file bit about the wizard :
This wizard allows you to run any benchmark (in verify mode) or burn-in module (or a group of them) either continuously or a specified amount of time in order to test the stability of the system.
While the benchmarks are not designed for burning-in, they are designed to stress the component(s) they test to the limit, being CPU, chipset, memory or disk bound and thus test the stability of the system. The burn-in wizard puts them in verify mode (if supported) that tests the results after completion.
The burn-in modules are designed to stress the component(s) by executing tasks that are known to cause problems and test/use as much of the component(s)?s functionality as possible. Most of the time, this means causing the component(s) temperature to be raised as much as possible.
Warning: Burning-in stresses components. Thus any weaknesses may cause them to fail or be damaged permanently. Do not run unless you know what and why you do it.
As it says it may damage the weak part permanently but at least hopefully it would show if you had a faulty component :doggie:
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Did it, results shown below :/
(https://www.pc-pals.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.lycos.co.uk%2Fsof2matrix%2Ftest.JPG&hash=977d2c78c464869935e4a8eaa92057191cb8d892)
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Your jpg didnt display for me Solo but the properties did so I cpuld see it by pasting the url for it into the address bar.
In case it doesnt display for anyone else who wants to see it its at :
http://members.lycos.co.uk/sof2matrix/test.JPG
Well I dont mind admitting that its got me beat :(
I think that you will only resolve this issue by substituting known good components and then seeing which,if any fixes it ???
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I've got 2 sticks of 256 ram, i tried with one in, same prob, switched them, same prob, so i'm trying different bays now. Still stumped tho :/
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Did you try this :
One thing they mention on there is that there are issues with 400MHz memory. You need to press CTRL-F1 on boot up to set the memory speed as per a 333. You also need to set the Bios to optimal and not performance. The latest bios is version F13 and also seems to be the most stable.
Which Dack found out off that forum the other day,it may be as simple as that :doggie:
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The memory i've had for 4 months + and never had any probs. I think summin just packed in :/
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I would still give it a try Solo,you can always change it back again afterwards if it doesnt make any difference.
XP seems to manage its memory differently to other OSs and you said it was only since putting XP on that the trouble started so theres a good chance that it is the memory thing after all :doggie:
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Still does it under Win ME :/
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Houston we have a problem :o
Sorry Solo it sounds like substitute,substite and substitute again to me :'(
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My gfx card spec says it needs a 350 psu, but the older card didnt, and have the same prob, but could it be the psu?
Did you try a new PSU Solo ?
I have just re read everything on this thread and you stated that you had a 300 watt PSU but that this needs a 350 for the card to work correctly also you have a 2600 CPU which I think likes more than a 300 watt supply.
I would definately be swapping that as soon as possible.
There are some QTEC ones here 400,450 and 550 which seem quite reasonable from £14-28 to £19-20 plus vat plus postage.
A friend has used a few of the Qtec 550 models and found them to be quite good and quiet in use :doggie:
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd3N1YmNhdGVnb3J5X3BhZ2U=&subcat_uid=177
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After i replace this, if i still get probs, im lost, its passed all test's .. altough the software don't test the PSU, so hopefully it's that.
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Also if it is the PSU can this still cause blue screens? One last thing i ain't checked is my hdd, whats the command to do a full hdd scan to look for bad sectors? also i was told to do a "format c:\ /u" whats a uncondisional format actually do?
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I think that its just scandisk at the C prompt Solo.
I dont know about that command for the "format c:\ /u",I wouldnt put a format command anywhere with or without any extra bits at all unless I wanted to wipe my drive :o
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What about the blue screens, can that be casued by PSU?
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Not sure Solo but it sounds likely if it cant provide enough power for the card :(
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I have been looking around in different places on the net and saw this Solo :
I think that the proble is wider than that. I have had PSU problems you might find hard to believe ! I had one system for my sister-in-law that worked fine on my workbench, and would bluescreen at her house. I got another PSU (same rating, better quality), and it worked fine at her house. And this was a 235 watt PSU for a 233 mhz computer just one year ago !!@!! (she only uses word processing and email over 56k)
So if I was a betting person I would put my money on it being a dodgy or underpowered PSU :doggie:
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Been meaning for a while to get a more powerful PSU anyway, i think it's when i added a 2nd hdd i started getting probs if i recall, but i might not be right, was a while ago :/ ( also thanks for all the help :P )